To just leave infant DS with XH to get on with?

[Rtmhwales]

I’ll try to keep this as succinct as possible but I’m really struggling with what to do in this situation, and it just keeps getting more and more complex.

Married DH in June 2017. I was living abroad in the UK when I met him. Five months into the marriage he decided he didn’t want to be married anymore and in fact wanted to go back to living with his parents forever (at 30..) and more of less sent me packing back to my country. Two weeks later I had a positive pregnancy test. I told him over the phone and he said to get an abortion and that I was ruining his life.

Nothing until February when I forwarded some scans to him and ILs (who I had a lovely relationship with prior to the end) of DS. They said they were opting out as it was in XH’s best interests for them to support him and not me and unborn DS. He made some noises about wanting to involved but then heard nothing from him again for months, and then it was only to sort out finances and a divorce ASAP.

DS arrived at 31weeks and spent a month in the NICU. Informed XH, seemed to have triggered something in him and he said he wanted to come see DS. Then nothing. He has been in occasional contact with me to set up child maintenance and query divorce items but has asked about DS literally once. He said there is zero point in asking after his DS until DS is of an age to answer him himself on Skype or similar..

Talking to him is draining. Our conversations have broken down and numerous gems have been lobbied at me including:

• he sees zero issue with telling DS he wanted to abort him if he ever asks because abortion is a normal solution to unplanned pregnancy.
• he has said numerous times there’s zero point in seeing DS before he’s 5 because babies don’t need or remember their fathers before then.
• when he decided he was coming to meet DS, he booked it without consulting me for September when DS is 4 months old so he doesn’t have to change holiday plans..
• he originally told me he didn’t want me around with him and newborn DS because if I could figure out how to handle a newborn, then surely he’d be fine.
• he routinely takes 3-4 weeks to reply to any emails I send, and if we do speak on the phone he constantly sighs and sounds hard done by. His most recent conversation he insisted I’m being awkward and difficult by offering to bring DS to the UK once or twice a year at my own expense so he can have a relationship with his dad. Apparently I’m being bossy and controlling by insisting if he sees DS it should be somewhat regular consistent contact.

Apologies for the novel, but now he’s decided I must be there to help him look after DS for the week he has booked to be here (without discussing it with me..) because DS “won’t know him and will probably make strange at him”.

AIBU to simply say no? I’m torn between being sick at leaving DS with his father if his father doesn’t know how to properly care for a newborn (he will be 2 months old corrected age by then), and thinking I shouldn’t be sacrificing my mental health by being around XH for hours on end for an entire week when he originally seemed to think taking care of a newborn on his own with no infant experience would go off without a hitch.

I’m at a total loss here on what to do and would love some outside perspective on how to balance the needs of everyone involved. What would you do?

I think you should decide what works for you that week, let your lawyers know and get them to sort it out with his lawyers.

If you do not believe your DS will be safe with him alone you could perhaps suggest a contact centre?

HE and HIS convenience is not your problem, your DS's safety and wellbeing trumps all followed by your needs.

Tell him NOT to turn up at your house, in writing (preferably via your lawyers) and that if he does you will contact the police and then do so.

Stop trying to help him out. Fuck him, you need to be calm and reasonably and I understand how hard that can be so let the lawyers do it for you. THAT is what they are for.

You need to act in your DS's interests. Sod what your ex wants. Agree to meet on neutral and busy ground for an hour or so. Don't leave DS alone with a man with such antipathy towards him.

If the situation doesn't look good at that point, you can't say you haven't given ex an opportunity to be a decent, caring, adult and you can save your DS any further contact with him.

@LanaorAna2

Fair enough. I did try to understand it from his perspective that he didn’t want this baby and that the situation was difficult, which is why I’ve said from day one I’ll stop updating him if he wants and proceeded cautiously. I’ve barely contacted him in the past nine months.

For the other point, he didn’t loathe me or vice versa. I have a previous post on here when it first happened but basically he’d never been in a relationship or lived out of the home in his 30 years and when we got married and lived together he took on a lot really quickly - high pressured job, buying a house, planning a family and wouldn’t stop involving his parents in making decisions for us. I began to question their need to be involved and he literally bolted out of nowhere. Even his family were shocked. We’ve managed to be civil this entire process and he doesn’t appear to loathe me. He just thinks any suggestion I make is me being difficult and awkward.

But even if it makes me a pushover, I understand that once a woman is pregnant a man no longer gets a say in how his life changes and has zero control over the outcomes. That being said, I felt that way about my divorce.

He’s there for the week. You’ve got plenty of time. I think once he meets him he’ll realise it’s unrealistic to spend 8 hours with him as he’ll be napping mostly so he’ll soon get bored and revise that to an hour in morning and a couple in afternoon etc. Whether you leave him to it or not is up to you. Do you get much alone time? If not i’d plan some nice things to do but not all day every day just a couple of afternoons that week.

"I see no benefit to your DS from having this man in his life." This.

You're seriously flogging a dead horse. He's much less interested than my exh who hasn't seen dd (who was planned and we were a family until she was 2) for several years now.

'When someone tells you who they are...believe them the first time' maya Angelou was a wise lady.

Both his words AND actions have told you he's an immature, irresponsible deadbeat and his parents aren't much better.

Cut your losses. Wish I had.

If you're not sure where you stand legally check with a solicitor? You could even post in legal?

"Op im afraid you need to get tougher or your ex will walk all over you." Agree

Honestly, I don't think he'll show.

Have you any evidence of him saying he wanted you to abort, wasn't interested in being a father? If so keep it safe.

Beyond that - don't help him but don't obstruct him - give him enough rope to hand himself which I'm sure he will.

Mean with money, mean with love - always the way.

OP, get through the divorce and the grim visit, and then see what happens in your own time. As far as contact goes, the guiding principle is that it's a child's right to see their parents, not vice versa. If you reckon DH has recovered from the divorce enough to behave properly, carry on with it.

Whatever you decide, there won't be much contact with EXDH given you live on different continents. You can get on with your life. Which is what you should be doing.

Neutral location and a limited but increasing contact schedule like a previous poster suggested sounds the way to go for now. I’ll speak to the lawyer about where I stand legally in suggesting this schedule and have him post it to XH’s lawyer, though I wonder if that’ll be throwing petrol on the fire.

OP, you are being very gutsy - sorry if I came across rather brisk. I was trying to show how big surprises can make people act like idiots. But it now appears your ex didn't need any help in that department.

I'm glad for you that the marriage ended as fast as it did.

A parting shot - never forget a bad parent is worse than an absent/dead one. Bad often equals absent, but really bad is always worse. Good luck to you and DS, you deserve it.

At 2 months I wouldn't have left my DC for 8 hours with anyone, even my DH who is amazing with them. I just wouldn't have wanted to be apart from them for that long and also was BFing.

I reckon he'd get really really bored after about 2 hours on day one and then either fuck back off or just pop in briefly. Good idea to meet our of the home though. Definitely don't let him have him alone, I doubt he'd try to abduct the baby but he sounds bloody clueless and weird.

I agree with posters who have suggested the time limitations on access is justified by what’s reasonable for your child not on the basis of what you want, thereby trying to limit the competition aspect.

Take them all at their original word, which was no contact, and make a life that does not include people who behave the way they do.

Please don’t leave him unattended with his father. I know of too many kids that have somehow been taken internationally by parents involved in a power struggle with each other. The legal nightmare to have them returned takes months and often years. That’s only if the two countries have a legal jurisdiction with each other in the first place. It’s not worth the risk.

He’s 2mo, thats so small! The only people who can take my 2mo out at all , for a couple of hours, are his loving and highly involved father, and his similarly caring grandparents.
Meet in a public place. Stay with and close to them all the time. If he objects don’t hand Baby over at all. Stay with friends if you are worried he will come to your house. Emailhim this info and you can use his response in court (although the not interested till he’s 5 plus the wild demand swings from hand over baby for contact and fuck off to reschedule your life at short notice to spend 8 hours a day with me should be plenty for court to see how great he is!
Do LESS time than the fostering & adoptive schedule suggested because foster and adoptive parents are highly committed couples who have jumped through hoops to demonstrate their willingness to care for the child. Your ex is none of these.

I would also have a 3rd party with you. You don't need to inform him or ask his permission for this. I'm not sure alienation is taken very seriously in the UK. There is an organisation called Reunite who gives advice to parents who live in separate countries.

Your baby is not in a zoo for him to see how and when he dictates...

The rubbish he's come out with indicates now little he seems to know.

Assuming Canadian law is like UK law... Anything done MUST be in best interests of your son....

Havinf a lump headed idiot wander in, prod your baby around... Make a ham-fisted attempt at feeding /bathing him and I disappearing off for another year... That's madness... Newborns are too little...

I would have thought it needs to be more regular, planned contact of he's serious

PS no way would I let him have unsupervised contact.

PS to protect yourself... I would arrange a timetable and have people? Pals? Parents coming by for long visits....?

You need witnesses.

Assume he is not staying with you??

Would deffo look into recording his visits...? Mobile phones can be set up to record?
At the very least audio record his visits....

Not just his interaction with your son, but what he says to you. After each visit, send the daily file to trusted pal /lawyer?

Leaving him with that man is neglectful at best. Abusive probably. Get over the man and put your DC first.

It’s abusive to your child to knowingly leave him with someone who will not care for him.

Why are you pushing for a relationship between then Op?! He’s clearly a complete tosser. Your son is better off without this idiot who clearly doesn’t give a shit about anyone than himself. Stop encouraging it and leave the self absorbed twat to it. And no don’t leave him alone with your tiny son!!!

Legally he has no rights to contact. The child has rights to have contact but not the parent.
If he's on the birth cert he'll have Parental Rights but this is not about seeing the child.
He'd have to go to a solicitor and then to court to get contact if you stopped it..i doubt he would.
What is this aresehole going to bring to yoir son's life? He sounds awful.

I wouldn't be sending him scan photos, contacting someone who clearly doesn't want to know about this baby.

Really. I'd have gone NC before he came over to see this baby.

You can't leave them alone together and, if I were you, I wouldn't molly coddle this relationship because he sounds like a man baby. You and your son deserve better than this idiot.

NC is the way forward, try and get through this week, then leave any contact up to him, it sounds like you've been chasing him.

Contact every day, building up each day, always on your terms.

It’s time to take control.

Work out a plan that suits you and just be out with baby the rest of the time so he can't impose on you.

I would not leave a baby with this man for a single second, even to disabuse him of the ridiculous notion that he could care for a newborn. You do not have to ensure that he sees your baby. If he wants to, tell him to lawyer up and don’t forget to tell yours about the disgusting things he would tell your child.

OP, just a suggestion. You know this man better than any stranger on MN. Nothing you have said suggests that you think he is abusive, violent, druggy, or otherwise dangerous to you or your baby. Rather, would you say he was very immature, unsure of himself, and totally incapable of taking responsibility for himself or anybody else? There is probably a name for it. He fled from an adult relationship and reverted to childhood basically, going back to his parents. He will probably never form another relationship, never have children other than your mutual DS. It's taken him all this time to even accept DS's existence and now belatedly he wants to see him. Do you think that means he intends to - or (more to the point) in the event actually would - play a meaningful part in his life in the future?
You don't appear to think he would be any danger to your baby, just that out of sheer ignorance he is no more capable of caring for him than a 3-year old wanting to play with a doll. And you're right. Short access, increasing during the week, with you there at all times. Then he's gone.
You once got along well enough to develop a relationship, to the point that this very awkward man left the security of his home to marry you and attempt to live a normal life. He wasn't up to it. But do you think him maybe capable of co-parenting, albeit in a minor way, hopefully just taking an occasional interest, from the safe distance of several thousand miles? In the scheme of things as the years pass his parents will die and he may then want to be closer to his son, but by then your son would be a grown man himself and able to cope.
It may be that you will just need to get through this one week. Is it at all possible that you could manage to use it to lay down a positive foundation for your son's future?