AIBU to have my children (8&5) do 30-40 mins of writing and maths every day of the holidays?

[Dilemmacentral]

Every morning, after breakfast, I ask that the children do 20 mins writing in a holiday journal and then younger does 15 mins of basic maths (reception - year 1 maths), and older one does 20 mins of mental maths, mainly tables? Every day, even when we went on holiday.

It doesn’t feel like a big deal. They don’t complain. They are so used to it (I do it every holiday) and in fact both seem to really enjoy the journal writing in particular.

But! A dear friend, in a genuinely unjudgemental manner, asked whether I felt guilty and said she thought that holiday were good for a complete break other than set school work. We do have set school work but very little (book reviews for eldest).

I don’t feel guilty at all and I told her as such, and we just moved on to another topic. I plan to continue doing. However I’m wondering about others thoughts out of nosiness and whether others do this too.

I feel the heat hols are so long. And it’s only max of 40 mins so that they hit ground running in September. Am I alone though?!

I’m a great believer in ensuring learning during the school holidays but I don’t equate learning with school type tasks. I think the school holidays lend themselves to deeper/wider/experiential learning.

Why do the two have to be mutually exclusive though? That is the sort of learning that just happens at home anyway surely?

Op, I wish I could get my 5 year old to. But as he is in holiday camps while we work it's difficult. If your kids are used to it I don't see an issue.

Yanbu.
A few minutes a day isn’t exactly gruelling and if they enjoy it then I really can’t see the problem.
Far better than losing their skills over the holidays which some, though of course not all, children do.

What if it takes you 2 or 3 hours to get a child to actually sit down

@Oliversmumsarmy

I can’t help on that. No idea what one would do.

What if it takes you 2 or 3 hours to get a child to actually sit down

That's a completely different issue though surely

@cloudtree

Agreed

I think yabu tbh. If they genuinely want to/ask to do it then great. But if not then they will eventually begin to resent the encroachment on their free time.
I’ve always gone with making fun educational things available during free time but never enforced it. My kids have always enjoyed being read to and later reading themselves, visiting hands on science museums, practising their maths skills through playing board games etc but I would never force anything. Kids learn better when they are interested and self motivated imo.
Both of my children have always been in top sets and done well academically so it’s certainly not necessary to provide structured teaching at home imo.

And if a child is struggling then you just need to be inventive and find ways they can have fun and learn.
Most young kids would be up for a game of I-spy using letter sounds for eg that would resent flash card phonics session in their school break.

Ok. Those of you saying I shouldn't force the issue (not the OP, but we do work in the school holidays). Suggestions to make a 9 year old child who hasnt voluntarily picked up a pen, pencil, paintbrush or colouring implement in his life practice handwriting?
Colouring, I can ignore his scribbled attempts at pictures from school, but his writing really does need to be legible. And if I leave it for our 13 week school holiday, it will deteriorate beyond belief.
Writing letters to people doesn't work (we email people -typing skills there, as post takes 3 weeks in each direction). Whether its writing a shopping list, or filling in a journal a couple of times a week, its all writing to him.

Dunes Have you tried saying that if he writes it on the shopping list he can have it? You might get a list consisting entirely of coco pops and ice-cream, though... I found only writing one word was less intimidating and there’s a built-in incentive.

Dunes what you describe is a symptom of dysgraphia

Most children will pick up a pen to scribble when they are small but if they don’t then it can be a symptom.

I kept all of dcs pictures. Looking back at them ds had painted things but not one picture/scribble is in any form of pen

Most young kids would be up for a game of I-spy using letter sounds

Have you ever tried playing ISpy with 2 dyslexic children.

I spy with my little eye something beginning with G (phonically).

After exhausting everything answer was Kitchen.

If they need it because they aren't progressing at school or backslide a lot of hols then this is fine. Otherwise it smacks a little if hot housing and it might be better fir the children to gain other exoeriences. There is so much mire to life than writing and maths.

Yanbu. People who pounce on their kids during the day to make them do maths remind me of Mr Pumblechook from Great Expectations.

cloudtree - “that’s the sort of learning that just happens at home”. No, I don’t mean that. Our DC all go to residential/day and specialist camps where they do masses of activities that schools cannot deliver, led by adults who are not school/classroom teachers.

I say go for it if your kids are happy to do it. One of my DCs who has just done GCSEs did a really pitiful amount of writing throughout primary and secondary school - I don't know if this is typical or just the way that her schools were. By the time she was about to sit GCSE English this year she was completely panic-stricken as she realised how little practice she had done for the writing task. I wish now that I had encouraged her to write over the years, so I think you are doing a positive thing.

cloudtree - “that’s the sort of learning that just happens at home”. No, I don’t mean that. Our DC all go to residential/day and specialist camps where they do masses of activities that schools cannot deliver, led by adults who are not school/classroom teachers.

Which is fine - presumably you mean things like PGL/sports camps etc.

Mine do that too. Doesn't mean they can't do a bit of maths

One of my sons peers is now at Cambridge and she spent all her holidays doing tasks like this. She also asked for those test books on her Santa list.

I also know someone at Cambridge who never did anything of the sort. Spent most of their summers out playing.

Both were happy children. There is no one size fits all.

I only once tried. When I was fed up with the school over lack of help for my obviously dyslexic son. He had been given beautiful to spell in year 3, and couldn't even spell you. I thought I would teach him the basics over the summer. Mmmm...interesting thing happened. He learned the words, on retest knew them, on retest a few days later didn't. This repeated itself. I could see something was going on and that helped us a great deal. Not in sorting his spelling but in understanding him. Sometimes doing things in a long summer break brings time when they are fresh to try strategies and notice patterns. So, if everyone is happy, I have no evidence to not say "go for it".

koksehi the children being sent to Kumon were very reluctant and kept trying to get back in the car, they were crying etc. The kids are literally exhausted end of term. I don't disagree with them doing anything at all, but the first Saturday of the hols when it's sunny?

There seems to be a big divide on MN - some people are getting their kids to do school based tasks over the summer and then you have the 'mine have been on their Xbox and the house is a tip' brigade who seem to revel in not getting their kids to do anything at all.

There is a middle ground. I agree with cory that there is so much more to 'learning' than worksheets. Running a household, road safety, prepping food. helping around the house. As a nation we seem to be obsessed with maths and English & seem to indicate the success of a child based on SATS/GCSE's.

OP you do not however sound OTT - I like the idea of the journal. Sitting at the table at home doing a journal is more inspiring than getting dropped off at kumon to churn our worksheets. They can look back at them in years to come and it will be a great read.

DH is a primary teacher and the children he has taught who do kumon do not appear to make any notable progress. Worksheet after worksheet will inspire nobody. Imagine if you're not great at something e.g. playing football and someone made you get up every morning and go and do training not only during term time but again during your holidays......

My son was upset at end of year 1 that he didn't know his times tables as well as some of the other boys. Every day he's written out his 2 and 5 times tables and is really happy he knows them now.
He also does 15 mins writing activity and reading every other night before his story.
It's not too onerous but keeps him ticking over and he's really pleased with his tables.
I don't think there's any harm in 20 mins each day.

Each to their own but to me holidays is just that, holidays.

I let mine be children and enjoy their time off. My parents never made me do work and I’ve turned out just fine with a very professional job.

I used to teach kids the same age as your older one.

Give them a break. There's enough of that crap in school. If they enjoy journal writing, then fair enough. But not the rest, and let them do as much as they want when they want.

When I was a teacher we called this 'hot housing'. Kids are under way too much pressure these days. And it won't give them some miraculous educational advantage. You could achieve more by spending that time doing something fun with them - crafts, making stuff, going on an adventure...

I should add - teachers can spot hot housed kids. I've never seen it offer any material advantage. Education is now full of teaching to test, ridiculous pintless standardised testing of children so young it isn't approrpriate and yes, parents love that. But it isn't education. Broaden your kids' horizons instead of chaining them to exercise books. If you want to give them a real advantage in life, let them learn through play and fun. I had a very laid back attitude to formal education for all my sons - and those who are now grown up are doing very well indeed. Drudgery isn't the answer, and even 20 minutes a day is 20 minutes too long.

UpstartCrow - also Mr Gradgrind in 'Hard Times'....

"Now, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts: nothing else will ever be of any service to them. This is the principle on which I bring up my own children, and this is the principle on which I bring up these children. Stick to Facts, sir!"

Oliversmum.: I remember giving up on I spy with my dyslexic child quite quickly!

It's not really useful to extrapolate out from my dyslexic child to the others regarding schoolwork though. The whole set up is against their strengths so no to continuing anything resembling it during the holidays. For other kids it's not necessarily stressful at all but quite fun.

I really feel I let my dyslexic (and stubborn) child down by being far too "relaxed" without knowing how I could have done better.