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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Dc about to be taken up in a light aircraft against my wishes

97 replies

dragonator · 17/08/2018 09:06

Dc (9&11) are on holiday with ex and family about 5 hours away from here. There is an elderly relative there (not sure of exact age) who has a light aircraft and the dc were due to go there earlier in the year and to possible go up in it. That holiday didn't happen but I told ex mil at the time that I wouldn't want them going up in the plane.

I also mentioned it to the dc and they both said they wouldn't want to go in it - maybe they were trying to please me but we spoke about it in quite a neutral way and they both are quite risk averse.

Ex took them last weekend but (and I regret this now) I didn't mention the plane to him because he has form for not ever replying to my texts/emails and I knew from when we were together that this man only takes the plane up in May for a local event (there was some talk a few years ago about taking dc out of school to go to it, but my disagreement then focused on not taking them out of school, rather than the plane itself).

I have just had a text from ex saying relative is offering to take them up and it's a great opportunity so he assumes I agree. I have replied no, and rung dd, who is now saying she wants to go but says ex mil and ex are arguing because ex mil wants to stick to my wishes.

I'm trying to ring ex but he's not answering. wtf do I do?

OP posts:

garethsouthgatesmrs · 17/08/2018 10:53

If he lies and they have flown, you withdraw contact

what horrible advice. How would it be in the best interests of the children to withdraw contact with a dad who loves them? Plus if this ends up in court dad will win because it's perfectly legal and the court won't look kindly on a mum using her children as pawns in some kind of game of control.

OP why don't you look into light aircraft flying and the dangers and them put some ground rules in place for future i.e. the driver mjust have had X hours flying in recent months, the plane must be fully serviced, driver must be insured ot drive children, you want to see a risk assessment, the children must be X&Y ages (so that you can put it off for a few years and by then they may feel they can confidently decline). That may appease DD and show that you are being reasonable but also allay some of your fears.

elastamum · 17/08/2018 10:58

Unfortunately there isn't much you can do here. They are with their father and it is up to him to decide. We all have a different view on risk.

I love adventure and have taken my DC up in helicopters, sea kayaking, open water snorkelling, climbing, off piste skiing and it never occurred to me to even ask their father what he thought

AndreasFault · 17/08/2018 10:58

I know a few light aircraft pilots and have listened to far too many boring flight conversations, but the 'taking the plane up in May for a local event' comment sounds as if the plane goes to the airfield for the event, not that it's only flown once a year.

wegotthis · 17/08/2018 11:01

YWNBU
A friend of mine's DP is a light aircraft pilot, an experienced one at that. They crashed a little while ago (mechanical fault) and it was only by sheer luck and the pilot's quick thinking that they were OK - apparently 90% of the same aircraft faults result in death. I wouldn't let my DCs go up either.

Trinity66 · 17/08/2018 11:01

oh I'd be so nervous about that too, especially when the pilot rarely even flies

imnotreally · 17/08/2018 11:04

You can not withdraw contact or go to social services over an amazing experience that they probably won't get the chance to do again. At least that's how court will see it.

BabySharkDooDooDooDoo · 17/08/2018 11:07

dragonator i remember your thread from before mentioning flying. Ywnbu then and yanbu now. At least mil is backing you up this time

MotsDHeureGoussesRames · 17/08/2018 11:07

I agree with PPs who wouldn't be comfortable with this but the OP can't decide to 'let' or 'not let' the DC do anything (except travel abroad) whilst they are with their DF. They are equal parents with equal rights and whilst they are with their DF, it is up to him to assess the risks and make decisions about what they do and their safety.

beachysandy81 · 17/08/2018 11:09

I think if anyone has reservations they should be respected. As you and MIL are not happy they shouldn't go.

Light aircraft accidents are a lot more frequent than accidents in commercial planes.

MotsDHeureGoussesRames · 17/08/2018 11:18

@beachy ok but how far do you extend that? The exDH has expressed concern about the OP's level of caution when making decisions for the DC. We don't know how much truth there is in that but if the parent whose contact time it isn't can express reservations and have then respected every time, that could have very negative implications for the DC's relationship with their DF. Where do you draw the line? As someone else said - when you split up, you aren't usually a parental unit anymore, making decisions together. The parent with the DC at any given time holds parental responsibility and is able to make decisions about what the DC do. Whilst I wouldn't let my DS go up in these circumstances, I know others that would. Hard though it is, you have to step back and allow the parent who has the DC to BE the parent. You don't have some greater right or power because you're the mother or the resident parent.

SlartiAardvark · 17/08/2018 12:13

@TheVanguardSix

Lies=broken trust

Grow Up.

SlartiAardvark · 17/08/2018 12:21

@MissSusanSays

Not true. Light aircraft travel is as dangerous as car travel.

OK - 2011-2016, 65 deaths in Light Aircraft in the UK LINK

1,792 road deaths in the UK in 2016 alone. Granted, some are pedestrians etc, but over the same 2011-2016 period it's pretty obvious that Car travel is more dangerous that Light Aircraft travel in the UK.

Leliana · 17/08/2018 12:26

@slartiaardvark With all due respect, this kind of statistical illiteracy really frustrates me. Without data on how many people participate in light aircraft travel and car travel each year it's impossible to work out the actual risk of undertaking those activities. If, say, 1000 people went up in a light aircraft last year, and 65 of them died, then that would make light air travel pretty risky. We need more information to put your data into context.

TheVanguardSix · 17/08/2018 12:53

I got my FIRST MN grow up!
Winner winner chicken dinner!

tillytrotter1 · 17/08/2018 12:57

So the other 50% parent gets no say, yet again? Maybe you should have had the brains to discuss this beforhand.

leapingtorand · 17/08/2018 12:59

It doesn't sound like the person piloting the aircraft does it very often ? Id want to know for example how many hours experience the pilot has, how long has he held a licence and if he or she has many hours in command recently ....

My DS will be starting flying lessons at age 13 but it will be with a well know flying club and competent and qualified instructors

MyDirtyLittleSecret · 17/08/2018 13:04

He's in charge right now, he gets to decide. I'm sure it's very worrying OP but you can't control what he does with the dc on his watch assuming he's a generally responsible and caring parent. It's hard but you have to allow him the right to risk assess his dc's activities when they are with him. While I applaud exMIL for supporting you, I have a sneaking suspicion it's not entirely about her respecting your wishes, rather it's about her having her own reservations about her dgc going up in a light plane.

BettyBizzghetti · 17/08/2018 13:12

OP, I am one thousand percent with you on this.

Your ex evidently has a different view of risk from yours (I have this problem with my ex, too). However, I'm surprised that so many posters, while saying that your wishes shouldn't trump his, are effectively saying that his should trump yours.

The immediate problem has evidently been averted, thanks to your extremely sensible ex MIL. However, it will rear its head again.

Your DC do not need to go up in a light aircraft. I would be saying no, no, and a thousand times no if it were my DC. Your DD may say she wants to, but she will recover from the disappointment. I would be enlisting ex MIL again as back-up. If your ex H has any shred of decency, he would not do this, just because it's verging on cruel to do something that he knows you are so upset about. I wonder if you could also talk to the DC, rationally, about your concerns? You might find them more receptive than their father.

bigKiteFlying · 17/08/2018 13:18

But talk about finding a way for them to go aloft in a safer way.

That would be what I would do - especailly as the pilot is a relative and the offer may be made again when the DC are older.

amicissimma · 17/08/2018 13:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MissSusanSays · 17/08/2018 14:11

Thanks Leliana, you got there before me. It bugs me too!

Fewer people flying light aircraft. There are multiple articles about the statistical comparability SlartiAardvark. Please do go read about it.

Original poster

dragonator · 17/08/2018 16:48

Thanks for all replies. They are on their way home now and didn't go up.

Just in case anyone wondered, I have never had any intention of withdrawing contact over this whether they had gone up or not. However, I don't agree that one parent just has to accept what the other parent does no matter what. To an extent, yes, if it's everyday type activities, but I think this thread has shown that many people would feel as I do, and there is some statistical evidence that the activity was too risky for two children to participate in. I'm not a fan of light aircraft anyway, but what made me dig my heels in here was the pilot and my concerns about him. Although I don't really do anything off the wall with the dc, and can't really imagine the shoe being on the other foot, if ex had concerns about something I would have to take them into account.

The dc participate fully in range of activities like climbing etc - sometimes on days out and at residentials with school, scouts etc. The only thing they can be hesitant about, especially ds, is rides and rollercoasters, but I don't think I've damaged them in any way.

OP posts:

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