To be annoyed I’m having to fight so hard to have an elective caesarean?

[OutPinked]

Basically, after three 10lb babies, my uterus has understandably lost its tone. I am 28 weeks with my fourth and final baby but measuring 32 weeks. I’ve been referred for a growth scan which will be utterly pointless as they always are. They’ll confirm he’s a big baby then do nothing with that information because there’s not really much they can do. Passed GTT with flying colours and I’m not obese, it’s just genetics.

First delivery was shoulder dystocia with emergency forceps and an extended episiotomy. Stitches burst open and became infected, I was in agony for weeks. Second delivery was retained placenta and huge PPH, again I was rushed down to theatre then later given two blood transfusions. It still took me weeks to recover and feel human again. Third delivery went ok but I needed an injection to stem the bleed.

Last year I had medical management for a missed miscarriage. Had a massive haemmorhage, went into shock, fell unconscious and needed emergency surgery+ a blood transfusion. Again, it took me weeks to feel human and I was on iron tablets for months.

DP can’t face the trauma of seeing me nearly die again and I can’t face the trauma of doctors piling in from all angles, jumping on top of me and being rushed down to theatre either. We’ve both decided an elective caesarean is safest. There’s no risk to future pregnancies because there won’t be any. If I do start to haemorrhage again, at least I’m already in theatre surrounded by medics who will immediately be on top of it.
It just seems far more calm and controlled and to me, is an absolute no brainer.

However, I have now seen two consultants who have tried their upmost to deter me. I’ve had almost pointless risk factors thrown in my face (pointless because there’s more chance of dying in a car accident but that won’t stop me driving). I’ve been told that I may bleed more after a CS and when I’ve explained the fact its still safer than risking that blood loss after a ‘natural’ delivery they shoot me down by saying they will still be on hand if it happens after a natural delivery. They don’t seem to grasp that I don’t want them to have to rush in from all angles, I want them to just be there from the off. They also try to deter me by mentioning recovery time forgetting how long it took me to recover after my first and second deliveries as well as the MMC last year.

After yesterday’s consultant appointment, I now have to see an ‘expert midwife’ to ‘discuss birth options’ . Seems ridiculously patronising because my mind is evidently made up but it’s just another hoop to jump through... then I will have to see the consultant again if it’s still what I want (it will be). Argh! To me, it’s just another example of women not being trusted to make the right decision for their own body and I’m tired of it. It’s irritating they reserve so much energy to warn women of risk factors during a caesarean but never ever warn them of what can go wrong during a ‘natural delivery’ too.

If I were able to commute the money I've saved the NHS, I think it would be my decision who got it, Londoner, not yours.

@bluelady good thing you can’t 😂😂 and there’s a reason for that.

@bluelady and guess what you’re not a consultant either so I guess your opinion on c sections are irrelevant too.

I think some people worry that if elcs are easily available then every woman would choose one. I don’t think that’s true at all, many many women are keen to have the experience of vagina delivery, and many find it positive and rewarding. I don’t see a risk to the nation’s health in allowing those women who do wish to have a section the choice of one, minus the hoops.

The fact that staff numbers are withering. Important operations are postponed or not given. Limited funding, limited staff.

It's nothing to do with C sections and everything to do with choice. Having had a stillborn baby and very nearly lost my life due to an undiagnosed condition, my faith in consultants is a touch jaundiced. But you crack on, Londoner, because you're determined to be right.

I would get a bank loan and go private.

I’m not at all saying I’m right. Im saying people are choosing to ignore professional advice. Advice they sought.
Choice is limited. Unfortunately we have limited choice in the NHS at the moment. I’m currently experiencing a limit of choices and there’s nothing we can do about it.
Do people genuinely believe they have or can have control over their pregnancy. It’s nature, it’s science. The same way we can’t control the weather.

Do people genuinely believe they have or can have control over their pregnancy. It’s nature, it’s science. The same way we can’t control the weather.

You can add more control or have less control though. You can’t control it 100% but you can control some parts.

londonerlove you sound absolutely demented. And completely without empathy and common sense.

If you didn’t have a traumatic birth, you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. If you did have one, the only explanation can be that you want other women to suffer as deeply as you have so you’re less alone in your pain. Reprehensible either way.

The NHS offers choice in how women give birth. This thread is stuffed with evidence of this. OP is being denied that choice against NHS policy. I can think of no way of making that any clearer.

Do people genuinely believe they have or can have control over their pregnancy.

Women can control their mode of birth, yes, but having a CS. And thankfully, it's available on the NHS as a choice. Hope you get your CS, OP. You're allowed to make decisions about your own body and have them respected in the NHS. You don't have to pay to go private just because some feel you should.

@bluelady she has absolutely not been denied a c section! She has come on here so that MN can confirm that the consultants are talking rubbish. Because clearly she is more experienced that a consultant.

@slothsloth what a load of rubbish. I was clearly stating that it is her fear holding her back. I expect births to be traumatic, I would be an idiot to believe it would be a walk in the park. I was just realistic.

I don’t know why people have this idea that birth should be scary and painful.
No one says it about any other medical scenario.

Because giving birth is something that exclusively happens to women.

There is a long history of women being dismissed, disbelieved and dictated to by the medical profession. Things are getting better but there is still a long way to go. Women with endometriosis, for example, often endure years of agony before their pain is taken seriously. They are often dismissed as being hypochondriacs and have to visit a number of different doctors over many years before they find one willing to properly investigate their symptoms, let alone treat them. Misogyny is also ingrained in psychiatry, where women will be diagnosed as having a Personality Disorder (with all the stigma and exclusion from certain treatments and services that goes along with it) while a man who presents with the same set of symptoms is more likely to be diagnosed with Complex PTSD or a psychotic illness.

As I said upthread, if men had the babies there would be much more emphasis on patient choice. There would also be much less stigma associated with the use of pain relief (particularly epidural) as no one would expect a man to simply resign themselves to terror and agony, especially not in relation to their genitalia. I would also be willing to bet that the shocking standard of aftercare many women experience on postnatal wards would be far less prevalent as men would simply not tolerate it, and society would not expect them too. Women on the other hand, are told that we should be grateful for a healthy baby and any trauma, physical or mental, that we sustain in the process, however severe or debilitating, is just something we have to put up with and if we don't like it we "shouldn't get pregnant in the first place".

londoner you must be trolling because I find it hard to believe anyone could genuinely be this lacking in compassion.

@sloth seriously not trolling just believe elective c sections should be for those who need it. OP has been told by TWO consultants that it is not needed.
Quite a few women experience what OP has experienced on a daily basis. OP’s problem is fear. Why should the NHS unnecessarily operate due to a persons fear.

Great post minister. The misogyny in the idea that avoiding the pain and potential trauma of a vaginal birth is somehow “cheating” (even though sections come with their own pain and potential trauma) is so clear. The fact that this idea is so often enforced by other women really causes me to despair.

For no other medical procedure do people judge you for taking the supposed “easy route”. Rather anyone who doesn’t take the “easy route” would be seen as incredibly foolish.

The idea that womanhood and suffering are bound up, and that you have to suffer to be a proper woman, is so pervasive still in 2018. It’s so damaging.

If she isn't being denied what she wants, why does this thread exist, you stupid, stupid woman.

Oh so fear of having your body torn to pieces or being handed a dead baby doesn't matter, then?

But londoner it’s hardly an unfounded fear, is it? Did you not read about her previous experiences?

As you are so concerned about money, do you not think her past complications and the complications she is almost certain to experience from another vaginal birth will cost the NHS a pretty penny?

OP said third delivery went ok. Each delivery becomes easier. As shown by OP’s experience. Third time round they were prepared for the bleeding so gave her an infection as a precaution. It obviously worked.

@bluelady you stupid stupid woman. The NHS woukd not deny. OP has not said she has been denied but advised against! Read the bloody post.

I can guarantee there is no refusal. OP is more than welcome to post her refusal?

@slothsloth please read my post regarding her experiences. If all three births were similar I’d say yes of course fight for the c section but OP has said it’s regarding fear. I don’t think MH comes into play as OP is on her fourth and would have requested c section on baby number 2 if her MH was affected badly.

Ps I see c section has the hard route, not the easy at out.