Broken my veganism today

[Stepstepmother]

And had to tell someone!

I’ve been a vegan for a few years - for environmental reasons and the argument that it’s much more possible to feed the world when we eat a plant based diet. It’s genuinely been a sacrifice as I love eating meat and fish and dairy - but I’ve done it. Lately I’ve been toying with the idea of giving myself a secret day off. Just one day, then back to it. That day was today. So I’ve eaten...

A buttery cheese croissant for breakfast
Rare steak with beef dripping chips and creamed spinach for lunch
A chicken thigh pita with halloumi cheese, caramelised onions, and garlic aoli for dinner.

It’s all been epic. And totally secret. I’m back on the straight and narrow vegan route again tomorrow and will look forward to my next cheat day in a few years time. But I just had to share.

(I know I’ve posted in AIBU - so, was I unreasonable?)

Frogscotch all great frogs think alike
The utter joylessness of some of the posts on here is so deeply depressing. That's partly why I was seeking to suggest to the op that it's possible to enjoy an ethical diet (in fact a more ethical diet than veganism) that doesn't involve depriving oneself of one of the greatest pleasures in life. The delight just comes across in spades in the original post. But maybe that's just my own love of food talking!

in fact a more ethical diet than veganism

more ethical than veganism? Surely there is no such thing....

Which moral reason could you have for being vegetarian?

Genuinely curious

Just a guess, but it's usually to do with the killing about eating of animals.

But I have a feeling you were just setting yourself up to try to make some inane point about "hypocrisy".

@frogsoup 🐸 I too am a huge fan of ethical consumption. Lucky to have a friend of a friend who keeps chickens - their eggs have ruined supermarket eggs for me forever. And I get to feel a bit smug.

Royalton, I was aiming my ire at the sanctimony of telling the op she's not a vegan (and an awful person to boot) because she 'stuffs her gob' with meat for 24 hours in 3 years, or that she isn't a real vegan if she isn't doing it because she cares about animals (clearly a paid up member of the thought police there, the stasi would be proud). If that wasn't you, then I wasn't calling you a sanctimonious tosser!

You could just say you only eat ethically farmed food, instead of having to lie. True friends would respect this and not expect you to eat cheap meat. I don't eat meat. My children and partner do, but they know that I will only buy good quality meat and eggs.

That wouldn't work, because it's not true (I don't eat dairy at all and virtually no meat, bit like the OP) and their version of ethically farmed is probably not mine. Free range from their local butchers or organic supermarket eggs doesn't cut it.

Frogscotch I wish I had the space and time to keep chickens! Nothing like a proper fresh egg. Our neighbour keeps them but alas it seems to have been mainly a fox-feeding exercise, which also puts me off!

Going back to OP the main issue is with two meanings of vegan. One is the traditional take ie a way of life and the thought of eating an animal product abhorrent and abusive, the other is the more modern, possibly American take on the word which is eating a diet containing no animal products. Obviously OP takes the latter and some posters on here think the former.

I have never heard of that distinction MLM. A vegan doesn't eat animal products. Its a perfectly simple, functional definition. 'Today I was a vegan' makes perfect sense. So does 'ive been a vegan for three years, today ate meat but tomorrow and for the foreseeable future I'll be a vegan again.' Anything added to about inner motivation falls under People's front of Judea/Judean people's front internecine ideological nonsense.

the other is the more modern, possibly American take on the word which is eating a diet containing no animal products

Actually there’s another, third way, also from America, which says you can be vegan and eat mussels because they don’t feel pain. I shit you not.

Doesn't that make sense? With the mussels?

They have no brain or central nervous system, so it seems pretty unlikely that they do. But this is about faith not fact, so it seems pointless arguing the toss.

@frogsoup

Exactly. They're basically meat-y plants...
I mean, they're taxonomically animals. But if you're choosing to eat plants instead on animals I'd ask the question of "why"...

If it's about the ethics of eating a (potentially) sentient being or about not wanting to cause pain, oyster might actually end up in the same category as plants (ethically speaking).

And oyster farming is actually very energy efficient (unlike meat or dairy...) so the environmental factor might not be a convincing argument either... (I actually wonder how oysters Vs other plant proteins would fare...)

Oysters also contain vitamin B12, Iron and other beneficial nutrients...

I'm neither vegan nor vegetarian, but I agree with the teetotal analogy. If you binge-drink once every few years, you're not teetotal. It's not a value judgment - I don't think there's anything wrong with drinking alcohol. It's just that "teetotal" isn't an accurate description. The same applies to veganism.

This reddit thread shows how seriously committed vegans take their philosophy - they don't have much sympathy for someone who ate a dish containing trace amounts of milk. I don't think OP's cheat day would go down well with them!

The only downside is that oysters are really disgusting.

Who makes up all these Vegan rules? Is there a central body that issues Vegan Law and decides who is a Good Vegan? Bizarre posts from some on this thread.

@NicknameMustbeBetween4and30Cha

But clams are delicious (and so are other kinds of seafood. I'm weak...)

So according to the cult of vegan how many days do I have to abstain from eating any animal derived products before I qualify to be able to call myself a vegan? Is it 1 week of non-animal consumption or 1 year or maybe 10 years? Am I excluded if I accidentally consume something of animal origin without knowing and find out about it afterwards? Ditto for the tee-total. I am broadly tee total. If you asked me today if I wanted a drink I'd say "I am tee total". It describes my day to day relationship with alcohol - I don't drink it. However I drank the champagne toast at my wedding 12 years ago (although it was appletise in the wedding car). Does that make me no longer tee total? How about if I decide this christmas to have 1 glass of bucks fizz. In fact I am deciding now that on Xmas day I will have a glass of bucks fizz. Does that mean I am no longer tee total or can I still be tee total until Xmas day and then will no longer be able to use the term? How long do I have to abstain after Xmas before I can once again call myself tee total?

I'd understand that I can't drink a glass of wine every day and be tee total but 1 day in a year seems to me not to be sufficient a break that "tee total" would be the wrong term for me 6 months later!

The same with veganism. If the OP has a bacon buttie tomorrow then maybe vegan she ain't but 1 day not following a vegan diet in 3.5 years with a firm commitment to follow a 100% vegan diet from now on suggests to me that the OP is normally vegan.

I’ve read the full thread, and as far as I can see, no one has pointed out this: what is the OP to say at a restaurant or friends house? If she says ‘I’m mainly vegan’, they might feel free to cook with butter/chuck a bit of cheese on top or similar. If she says ‘I eat vegan foods except for that one time in 2018’, well, that’s probably more than the waiter needs to know. Isn’t ‘I’m vegan’ just simplest?

It doesn't matter. It really doesn't. Eat meat, don't eat meat. No-one really gives a fuck. Just don't bleat on about it. You're not making a bit of a difference to the world so don't pretend you are.

You're not making a bit of a difference to the world so don't pretend you are

Well, collectively vegans and vegetarians are definitely making a difference. Strange thing to say.

Sometimes people use labels like teetotal and vegetarian to stop people forcing unwelcome alcohol and meat on them. While It can be a little annoying if you think they are not teetotal or vegetarian in reality, maybe you should also consider whether you are being overbearing when expecting them to match you in eating your own favoured diet.

If vegans collectively want more people to come on board, I would say they're not going the right way about it.

Of course the OP is vegan.

It's not like my vegetarian NDN who came round with her DH for a BBQ. I know my marinated food is delicious but I was a bit surprised when she had a sausage and a chicken kebab (as well as the vegetarian food I'd prepared for her!) That now means I don't have to worry too much preparing vegetarian food when she comes round!

At least OP ate her delicious meat in secret!

I was a bit surprised when (my vegetarian NDN) had a sausage and a chicken kebab (as well as the vegetarian food I'd prepared for her!) That now means I don't have to worry too much preparing vegetarian food when she comes round!

I wouldn't bet on it, Roussette As I've said, it's a free world and folk can eat/not eat whatever they want - but it's hard to avoid thinking there's sometimes a certain amount of attention-seeking going on