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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Anyone else terrified about climate change

175 replies

catstring · 14/08/2018 23:39

How on earth can we sleep at night knowing we are just sleepwalking into the abyss. Our children and their children will suffer won't they.

OP posts:
LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 15/08/2018 19:11

Not terrified no, just resigned to it. We're too selfish and stupid to really understand the impact of our lifestyles. We want what we want and that's it.

I remember working in local government 20 years ago when Local Agenda 21 and the Kyoto Agreement were being heavily promoted. I remember my boss at the time poo-poohing both. Twat.

Only when the last fish has been fished... Indeed. True that.

Sorry OP, but you're not being unrealistic in the slightest.

placemats · 15/08/2018 19:13

I don't live in a bunker (though I do have a refurbished cellar).

I've given science links but obviously NASA isn't scientific enough for you hairyhands

When it comes to human ingenuity, I certainly don't want you on my team.

SleepFreeZone · 15/08/2018 19:18

It’s happening right now. We were all kind of relying on it happening in thousands of years time and not affecting us. Sadly it’s goinv to affect us all and a lot of us are going to die.

ILikeyourHairyHands · 15/08/2018 19:21

Cool. NASA is all about stats in that link. My Dad used to work for NASA. I own a tech company with my DH.

I'm on the side of progress. (But don't worry, we'll let you benefit from it when you stop cowering).

What good does fear do btw?

I understand a feeling of helplessness, but abject fear bodes no well, other than a deeply felt sense of 'I told you so' satisfaction if it does go tits-up.

Not a way I'd chose to live my life.

But crack on!

SaoirseTheSeahorse · 15/08/2018 19:26

I don’t think anyone could deny that sleepfreezone;

www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/climate-change-and-health

I agree with hairyhands too though, that fear is not much use to anyone and human ingenuity is something to be marvelled at. I don’t necessarily think technology will save the world or reverse climate change, but in terms of mitigating the worst effects for some people, it’s probably our best bet. Just my understanding of it though and I’m so not a scientist! Just an admirer of scientists Grin.

placemats · 15/08/2018 19:29

I didn't say I was fearful.

Germany, Sweden and Switzerland all encourage stockpiling of foods for their citizens. It's seen as normal and everyday.

I live a very peaceful life.

SleepFreeZone · 15/08/2018 19:30

India stockpiles its rice which is why the price went up a few years ago.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 15/08/2018 20:07

Some patronising twonks on this thread.

hilbobaggins · 15/08/2018 20:41

It’s happening right now. We were all kind of relying on it happening in thousands of years time and not affecting us. Sadly it’s goinv to affect us all and a lot of us are going to die.

WTF are you talking about? What’s happening right now? We’re all going to die at some point, but it’s not going to be because of human CO2 emissions.

There’s such a dismal, anti-human tone to this thread, it’s no wonder most people can’t be arsed with worrying about climate change. It’s so dreary to see yourself as nothing more than a walking carbon footprint, good for nothing except burping out CO2 and giving birth to mini carbon footprints. This is not what human life is supposed to be about.

As hairyhands says - if you have any genuine interest in this subject beyond middle-class miserablism and hand-wringing, put down The Guardian and spend a week actually engaging with scientists who aren’t catastrophising about the end of the world. The London Climate conference 2016 on YouTube
is a decent place to start. You might be surprised by what you learn.

SomethingOnce · 15/08/2018 20:49

I believe in science and the ingenuity of humanity.

Yeah me too, but there’s a limited number of ingenious people and limited resources, so let’s reduce the number of problems, and their scale, to a minimum, eh?

SaoirseTheSeahorse · 15/08/2018 20:53

But she’s right hilbo; climate change is happening and people will die because of it, (or already are), in our lifetime. I thought that was generally accepted knowledge..? It doesn’t mean the end of the world, it simply means more deaths will occur every year, because of climate change.

That doesn’t make you wrong though, about life being more than carbon footprint etc. It’s perfectly possible to accept climate change is happening and that it will be fatal for lots of people, while still loving humanity and wishing to celebrate and preserve the good stuff. Some would argue that accepting climate change is happening might help people appreciate the good stuff all the more.

I mean, tbh, I personally have mixed feelings about some parts of humanity, but that isn’t anything to do with climate change... More to do with me already being a cantankerous old trout at the grand old age of 34 Grin!

buttermilkwaffles · 15/08/2018 21:27

"The London Climate conference 2016 on YouTube"

Aah, do you mean the one organised by climate change sceptics/deniers "The Independent Committee on Geoethics" set up the previous year by Christopher Monkton (ex ukip politicain) and Nils-Axel Mörner and whose guests included well known climate change sceptic Piers Corbyn? That conference?

ILikeyourHairyHands · 15/08/2018 21:47

I think it's instructive to divorce politics and science. History has shown they are not happy bedfellows.

It's very important to take issues singularly and not marry them to any overriding ethos.

Take each question and ask, 'Is this true?', no matter what it is.

Ask

Is this true?

And why has the question even been asked?

It's not helpful to believe cant from either side.

You're not a passive observer in your own life. Or life itself. You're an active participant.

Tika77 · 16/08/2018 09:10

Reading this thread... yes, we’re fucked if so many care so little. I agree science will save the world. Not humanity, AI will probably wipe us all out. 😆

hilbobaggins · 16/08/2018 12:54

Aah, do you mean the one organised by climate change sceptics/deniers "The Independent Committee on Geoethics" set up the previous year by Christopher Monkton (ex ukip politicain) and Nils-Axel Mörner and whose guests included well known climate change sceptic Piers Corbyn? That conference?

I understand this perspective. I used to have it myself. I used to be convinced that we were all going to hell in a hand basket, and that “climate deniers” were intent only on speeding up our arrival there. I was convinced that these “deniers” were totally evil, had nothing but bad intentions, and that anyone who gave them the time of day was a total ignoramus.

I’m rather embarrassed by my earlier opinion now. I’m also much more questioning of where terms like “climate denier” come from, why they are used (to shut down debate) and how they found their way into our national vocabulary to the point that nobody questions them. We’ve all been conditioned to put our fingers in our ears when anyone attempts to suggest that there might be evidence that contradicts the apparently prevailing viewpoint.

My opinion changed when I started working in academia. That helped me to undersand how research careers were built, and the enormous amounts of money at stake - especially in the area of climate change research. Working alongside scientists also helped me understand that science isn’t, and can never be, settled. To frame the climate change discussion as having been decided by scientific consensus, and those who disagree as “deniers”, is completely dishonest. (A quick dig into the methodology behind the “97% of scientists agree” study will reveal just how dishonest these figures are.) Worse than that, it’s not science! Science isn’t about deciding by consensus. It’s not about getting scientists into a room and taking a vote. It’s about facts and evidence, and it changes continually as new experiments are conducted and new evidence comes to light.

For example, one of the researchers at the 2016 conference is an oceanographer whose area of study is looking at volcanic activity on the ocean floor. He is investigating the extent to which this volcanic activity may be responsible for increasing temperatures in the ocean, something which the climate change models don’t take into consideration. His work will contribute towards understanding natural climate variability, over which humans have no control. (This is an extremely important part of the overall picture of how climate works, but it’s an area that receives dramatically less funding than research into human impact on climate change - but that doesn’t make any sense, because without understanding one, how can you fully assess the impact of the other?). Does this make him a “climate denier”? No, it makes him someone who is following a scientific line of enquiry, extrapolating data and presenting the evidence.

Working in academia also helped me understand the difference between computer models and scientific experiments. There now appears to be a growing disparity between the computer models which predicted a rapid rise in temperatures, and what has actually been observed (a far slower and gentler increase in temperatures, with little or no warming between 1998 and 2015). We have to at least consider the possibility that those models were wrong, and that we’re actually not on the catastrophic path originally predicted by, for example, Michael Mann’s discredited hockey stick graph.

Why does this matter? It matters because bad science is influencing decision-making and that leads to bad policy decisions at an international level. And these decisions can have unforeseen consequences. Why are we all driving diesel cars? Because of the CO2 panic. What happened as a result of the increase in diesel? Our air is now much more polluted. A terrible policy decision, based on flawed data, that’s landed us with another problem to sort out.

This is such a complex, nuanced and (now) politicised field. It’s really impossible to draw any hard and fast conclusions.

placemats · 16/08/2018 18:06

So the esteemed David Attenborough is wrong then about plastics in the oceans that kill mammals living there?

unearthed.greenpeace.org/2017/09/25/david-attenborough-climate-change-science-storytelling-blue-planet-ii/

hilbobaggins · 16/08/2018 21:57

Of course he’s not wrong. Where in my post did I even mention plastic in the ocean, let alone suggest that it wasn’t a problem?

That article is actually a really good example of the kind of scientific objectivity I was talking about in my previous post. Attenborough refuses to be drawn on the issue of climate change and returns several times to the fundamentals of science: experimentation and data.. He actually says, when asked the (ridiculous) question, where have you seen climate change? - as if climate change is something you can take a snapshot of:

“It’s very dangerous to just point a finger at that place on the map and say “There you are, that’s what’s happening”. You have to be a generalist and you have to take a survey. That’s what science is about.”

EdWinchester · 16/08/2018 22:02

No! I won't be here and nor will my children's children's children.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 16/08/2018 22:10

biscuiteater I was interested to see Mayer Hillman chose the University of East Anglia to make his somewhat alarmist remarks

I know I've mentioned this not-so-august institution before, but given their ... errr history ... in this area, wouldn't you think they'd have learned? Hmm

hilbobaggins · 17/08/2018 09:12

Yes, Puzzled. I thought that too.

The Guardian loves a climate catastrophe story. Mayer Hillman has a most bizarre viewpoint:

“We’ve got to stop burning fossil fuels. So many aspects of life depend on fossil fuels, except for music and love and education and happiness. These things, which hardly use fossil fuels, are what we must focus on.”

I’d love to see how “music and love and education and happiness” flourish in our lives when we can’t turn on our lights, cook on our ovens, keep food cold in our fridges, heat our houses in winter, use transport to move around, get money out of the bank, use computers, have easy access to food and about a million other things we take for granted in everyday life.

HappyBetty · 18/09/2018 15:12

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BloodyDisgrace · 18/09/2018 16:02

I'm not losing sleep over that. I recycle, don't litter and that's where I draw the line of my involvement. I'm not into guilt-tripping, if you see what I mean, i.e. not the kind who'll apologise for their existence.

mum5netab1 · 19/11/2018 15:19

I've been researching what I can actually do about it. I've got rid of my car and given up meat. I think when people realise that unless we all do that, our kids may not have a life at all, people will change their behaviour. I'm a normal middle aged woman who's started doing direct action to make our government wake up to the climate crisis. What's the point in worrying about schools when there'll be no society for our kids to have jobs in? What's the point of feeding them meat which is contributing to climate change which could end their lives? What's the point in driving them to stuff in fossil fuel cars which will do the same?

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