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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Butch as a Mum

107 replies

Dani010186 · 13/08/2018 20:58

I am a butch looking lesbian and my wife and I want to start a family, unfortunately so far my wife has it been sucesseful and I’m willing to try but am scared of the reactions I may get . What’s everyone’s view or have u yourself been in this position. Advice please x

OP posts:
Neshoma · 14/08/2018 08:50

Your point, not necessarily everyones.

YeTalkShiteHen · 14/08/2018 08:51

Neshoma and?

Neshoma · 14/08/2018 08:53

Arr. YeTalk is here to swear, name call and bully people off a thread in order to 'win' the argument. Bye.

gamerwidow · 14/08/2018 08:53

You and your wife are both women however you choose to present yourself. It is no different for a butch lesbian to have a child than a femme lesbian. If you can and want to have a child then you should have one. The biology of your family is no one else’s business.

YeTalkShiteHen · 14/08/2018 08:55

If you can and want to have a child then you should have one. The biology of your family is no one else’s business

This, absolutely this.

AJPTaylor · 14/08/2018 09:00

Aibu is prob the wrong forum to get an accurate idea tbh. Its probably not mums that you would get negative words from ( is it women you get grief from now?)
I would poss be suprised momentarily if the butch one out of a couple was pregnant. But it wouldnt last long. Probably just think lucky there were 2 sets of equipment

FlyingElbows · 14/08/2018 09:15

Ofcourse! If only these darned butch lesbians would smile and go on diets then they'd just be better women and society wouldn't have to be scared any more. For fuck actual sake wtf goes on in some of your heads?

Op it really doesn't matter which of you has a baby as long as it's a decision you are comfortable with. You'll face criticism literally no matter what you do and no matter who you are. It's just another thing on the list of things women "should".

catkind · 14/08/2018 09:19

Go for it OP, good luck! You'd still be a mum if your wife got pg wouldn't you? You'll probably get MWs or other families assuming you're the sister/friend/doula but the former should quickly correct themselves when you explain, and again it would happen either way around. As a straight mum, I wouldn't see you as any less motherly for being butch. Not sure exactly what being butch means to you but short hair and trousers is just kind of practical when you have a small baby isn't it?

Once baby's actually born then doubt many people will even ask who gave birth. Though people may be silently curious. A black woman at my postnatal group got asked once why her baby was so whiteShock - but she said she was actually pleased someone mentioned it out loud as she felt like everyone was thinking it anyway. The two mums of a child in DD's class also prefer the cheerful openness route.

mistermagpie · 14/08/2018 10:14

The thing is, people will be judging you anyway - as a woman, as a lesbian, as a 'butch' lesbian, as a lesbian couple with a baby etc etc etc. So don't let this hold you back because, unfortunately, you aren't going to be free from judgement if it's your wife who carries the baby.

FWIW I personally wouldn't bat an eye about it, but I know there are people who would. Most mums (at groups and things) are just trying to keep their own shit together so will probably not be focussing to hard on you. Also, once the relatively short bit of pregnancy is done then nobody, outside of your actual friends and family who presumably aren't judgemental, will know which of you carried the baby so it's irrelevant.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/08/2018 22:25

I do think some butch women look so unapproachable and angry, as though they'd punch your lights out if you asked them to hold the door.

Yeah, they probably had to read this thread and cope with bigoted comments like that.

FWIW, I bet you I look unapproachable, angry, and as if I'd punch your lights out right now. Sadly, not remotely butch.

FranticallyPeaceful · 15/08/2018 22:27

My cousin has a wife who is “butch” looking and they are the most wonderful mothers I’ve ever met and have a lot of support from the community. Their children are happy and loved and they love both of their mothers. Don’t worry about what somebody may or may not think

Antiparos · 15/08/2018 22:48

There is an interview with the author of the book 'Pregnant Butch' that PP mentioned here which you might be interested in: www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/apr/11/being-pregnant-felt-like-being-in-drag

Very best of luck with whatever you decide xx

SemperIdem · 15/08/2018 23:51

Go for it op. So what if you present as “butch” - that is only down to societies gender norms. It makes you no less a woman who can carry a happy and be a (one of two) loving mother

SemperIdem · 15/08/2018 23:52

*carry a baby not a happy Hmm. Fat fingers.

Jeanclaudejackety · 15/08/2018 23:53

It doesn't matter how you present yourself or what your sexuality is, you're a woman who wants to have a baby, I'm behind that 110 million percent.

Mrsramsayscat · 15/08/2018 23:55

YANBU. Live your life.

LokiBear · 16/08/2018 00:02

You do not have to look a certain way to be a mum ffs! You've got one life - do what makes you happy and have no regrets! When my dd was 3 she asked me which of the two women who picked her friend Harry up from nursery was his mumny. I explained that both of them were. Her response? 'Wow, two mummys? Harry is lucky, isn't he mummy?'

Whyyounoeatmypie · 16/08/2018 05:28

Can I suggest that, while it's great that many posters wouldn't respond judgementally, their attitude does not match with many LGBT people's experiences of parenthood. Butch lesbians face specific challenges and threats associated with gender performance (see Hannah Gadsby's amazing 'Nanette' on Netflix for this). There is genuine fear for many associated with making themselves even more visible by becoming pregnant in a society that absolutely remains militant regarding such gender performance. Of course we are all judged as women and as mothers, but we are not all coming to motherhood already being judged and having been subject to discrimination and abuse simply for who we are. It can also be a huge burden being so visibly representative, however awesome that may be for future generations. I think the OP is wise to ponder how to approach pregnancy and to surround herself with a strong support network.

Wishing you all the best OP, and if this is what you want then go for it, DLTBGYD and surround yourself with all the awesomest people.

Originalsaltedpeanuts · 16/08/2018 05:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HelpmeobiMN · 16/08/2018 07:36

I do think some butch women look so unapproachable and angry, as though they'd punch your lights out if you asked them to hold the door.

You realise this prejudice is YOUR problem to work on, not any body else’s, right?

Nobody owes it to you to look approachable, gentle, feminine or any other thing, and if you expect that of other people you should adjust those expectations and stop judging people by their appearance.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/08/2018 07:49

Why, thank you so much for writing that, and so much more eloquently than I could have done.

Especially this: Can I suggest that, while it's great that many posters wouldn't respond judgementally, their attitude does not match with many LGBT people's experiences of parenthood.

Honestly, it is quite depressing reading a thread full of people saying cheerily 'oh, no one will think anything of it and if they do they're just horrible anyway' because it just isn't true.

People do. They don't even notice they've done anything. My DP was called 'sir' while breastfeeding. She's been called 'dad' on countless occasions while out with my DD. And she's really not even that butch!

An awful lot of the people who breezily say they wouldn't notice are probably doing these things. That may be why you don't notice: you've normalised the situation in your own mind.

BertrandRussell · 16/08/2018 07:52

It’s like the “Oh, I don’t see colour” approach to racism, isn’t it?

YeTalkShiteHen · 16/08/2018 07:59

I agree LDR, to dismiss concerns isn’t right or fair.

It’s not right that OP and other women are made to feel like that, and it’s a sad indictment of society that it’s even a question.

Originalsaltedpeanuts · 16/08/2018 09:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/08/2018 11:39

original, I'm sure they had encountered female couples before. Confused Never suggested they hadn't. What I'm not sure they'd encountered was a butch mum. Sorry if I sound a little ungenerous, but there is quite an irony in you posting to say how liberal and broad-minded MNers are, and simultaneously conflating 'female couple' and 'butch/femme couple with a butch mum'. They are not automatically the same! And one point the OP might be worrying about is that, while plenty of people are fine with lesbian mums, there is a tendency to make assumptions that butch/femme couples will imitate male/female couples in the way they approach motherhood. People constantly erase this problem by saying 'ooh, I've no issue with lesbians!' but it is not purely an issue about lesbianism, but an issue about how some lesbians present themselves and how society interprets them and their likely roles in a relationship.

And yes, I complained, and yes, the responses were a predictable mix of 'omg, where on earth was that, couldn't happen where I live' from straight people and 'yep, us too' from other lesbian couples in similar situations.