SIL has not vaccinated my nieces

[Pittcuecothecookbook]

My baby has been booked in for her vaccinations soon. I asked my sister in law, who has primary school aged kids, about the experience and I was flabbergasted when she said she didn't get their jabs. I can't quite believe it!

When I asked why, she said the risks outweighed the pros but she struggled to articulate what the risks were beyond 'potential death'. I said that that was also the downside of not getting the jabs too! She said she was persuaded when her friend said that the jabs couldn't be undone if her kids had a reaction.

AIBU to be shocked and quite disappointed about this? I'm not looking forward to it by any means, but the eradication of many awful diseases and protection against those still prevalent is surely a non negotiable?

When her kids don't get these diseases, she'll be vindicated but that will likely be because the majority have had their jabs rather than proving jabs were unnecessary.

I imagine I'll get over this - my child will be protected - but I'm just at hearing this news.

As I said to you yesterday @sue work on the way you interact with people if you want them to listen to your side of it. It's curious that if your a biochemist that you haven't mentioned this in 17 pages. It doesn't matter what my job is as I am not professing to work in this field and therefore "know all the answers" as you repeatedly keep claiming. As I said in my very first post my interest in this is being a mum whose child and unborn baby were exposed to the measles virus by selfish individuals who refused the vaccine and than as soon as there was a problem ran straight off to the hospital to get the vaccine.

@spirited ah okay. What a ridiculous argument of which I'm sure there will be zero correlation

If bother to read I said I was in this field at the same time i gave the link but since you have problems reading anything you don’t want to hear so be it

i Put up the link as it is far better explaining things than I am been English is my 4th language

as to working on my interaction well people can read or not believe or not it’s there choice since I’m not pro forcing people to do anything it’s all there own choices.

You don’t oppose lies. OK then

I didn't say that now, did I?

I think you're behaving like a bit of an idiot, to be honest with you, I'm not convinced you'd be well-placed to decide for other people what is a lie and what isn't.

Well one thing No one would have run off to the hospital to get vaccinated as it’s that’s the job of gp surgery’s.
In your first post you say you had to be tested In Case you had contracted it so for someone that is jumping up and down a lot telling others they must be inoculated you had not made sure you were properly covered till that day when it became a risk and if the outcome had been the opposite you would In Fact have been in the un vaccinated category yourself. Which in your own words would have been selfish to others also.

And the fact you have chosen to keep said children away from nursery is your choice. You could just as easily sit next to someone in the cinema or on the bus or train or anything else so to do so is pointless.

I don't think flu has changed has it - it's always mutated every year, it's a particularly fast mutating virus, the same with colds of which there are hundreds of varieties. That's why you can get it multiple times, because it's constantly changing a little bit and why we've only really had vaccination for it relatively recently. It's because it changes every year and not that it has begun to change because we now vaccinate. If you look at vaccinations we have had for a long time like tetanus, BCG, diphtheria etc, these do not need to be changed in format and are still considered effective.

Antibiotic resistance and poison resistance is a problem of course but I'm not convinced this is the same for vaccination. I know that this is an argument of antivaxxers and it can come across as convincing, but I'm not really sure that the logic follows, especially the idea that vaccinating against one disease allows other diseases to become stronger. As far as I know, bacteria and viruses are not like creatures in the food chain where if you eliminate one kind of pest another will thrive because they are no longer being preyed upon. These organisms don't hunt each other, they seek to invade humans (or animals) and propagate that way.

@suewiang - stop. Do not dare to tell me the facts of my own situation. I have always been vaccinated in accordance with the schedule. I actually had IVF to have my children and all of my inoculations had to be checked prior to have treatment to ensure I was covered. I was born at a time when only one dose of measles was given - no-one has ever queried this and there was no suggestion I was not vaccinated by my GP or my IVF clinic. PHE and my GP said I needed to be tested when my son had been exposed because I was having the baby the next day to ensure I still had immunity and this would then be passed to the baby as there was a chance this had waned - how was I to know this prior to this situation? They were undoubtedly being cautious but it was a very real frightening and stressful situation for me at the time and they didn't tell me it was a double check to make sure. I had previously had all the checks and told I was covered. And you are very very wrong about the GP/hospital situation. The children who were ill and those with symptoms were being managed out of the children's hospital where they could contain the risk and exposure to infectious diseases properly rather than in GP surgeries who were ill equipped to deal with it. My GP had no answers for me when I went to see him because he said "we are not used to dealing with measles - it is not a disease we have ever had to deal with in our 20/30 year careers". Until now. Because people refuse to vaccinate. You make a lot of assumptions for someone who is supposed to have a scientific mind and be open to any and all outcomes. You are also incredibly rude.

Of course the children sick with it or had symptoms of the disease were in hospital they had the disease already the ones without the disease would either have already had the vaccination or been told to go to there GPs

I’m open to all that’s why my opinion is it’s everyones choice to vaccinate or not

So if someone doesn’t vaccinate do they not travel? If you’re relying on herd immunity what about travelling to locations that are “ sub optimal” on their vaccinations programme? I’m also curious about whether anti vaxxers would use any traditional medicine since there is potential for side effects with anything eg anti maleria medications.

I’m open to all that’s why my opinion is it’s everyones choice to vaccinate or not

The problem is the decision is made for someone else who does not have a voice. It isn’t the adult in question who is likely to suffer is it?

There are very few countries that will not allow you to travel to them.but they very few.

You could say that we should ban drink fully because some get in there cars and kill others which is a much much higher risk than catching measles etc off a unvaccinated person.
Or you could say that ban all cars trains buses airplanes etc because of the pollution that kills people and animals.
So where do you stop

The debate isn't really about choice, it's about whether the choice is based on accurate information (and secondarily whether we choose to make the parents live with some of the consequences of their choice by limiting contact between vaccinated and unvaccinated children).

Those are all false analogies, a common rhetorical device known as the slippery slope argument.

the chance of dying from whooping cough in the UK is tiny, and there is no guarantee that the vaccine targets the same strain, will have worked

Whooping cough is serious. I had it as a child, I think I was about 3 years old, I remember all about it and not being able to breathe, I remember being so scared...that's all I can remember from such a young age, it was traumatising.

No it’s fact.
U see vaccination as essential lots don’t simple as

The debate is that the lady thinks she can tell her sister in law what to do and think it’s that simple.
And the simple answer is she has no right to do so

SpiritedLondon

So if someone doesn’t vaccinate do they not travel? If you’re relying on herd immunity what about travelling to locations that are “ sub optimal” on their vaccinations programme?

We can't vaccinate and therefore don't travel to destinations that require mandatory vaccinations. We also don't travel to any countries where travel warnings exist due to disease being rife. Who would, unless their job necessitated it? I can't have the yellow fever jab so I have never been to Egypt. I have generally travelled extensively however. I don't rely on herd immunity. I rely on my immune system and hygiene as far as possible.

Or have you forgotten the original post

The debate has obviously moved on. I am afraid I am struggling to respond to your posts in a meaningful manner because they are just repeated assertions that parents have choice and that is no longer the topic of discussion.

Sue you’re not actually allowed to have an opinion on anything regardless of your expertise unless you’re 100% onboard with the current and ever changing vaccine schedule and realise all vaccine promoting research is entirely altruistic and for the benefit of all