To want to try a different approach?

[chocolateaddicted]

As a bit of a back story DH and I have a 3yr old son and started ttc March 2015 for our next one. So far nothing has happened for us and we have tried a lot of things to help us. Been to the gp and referred to a gynaecologist to advise. From that we have been given tests, I've had surgery, advised on stopping caffeine, sugar, alcohol, neither of us smoke so that's not an issue.

A friend told me to seek older medicine though and that a Chinese herbalist and more natural approach would work better. I went to see one on Monday and they have agreed they could help. I'm fact she started the appt by looking at me first to then tell ME what I was there for. The issue is though that they need to treat us both at the same time and DH is not really on board. He's super skeptic and thinks they're all just shams out for your money.

AIBU to want him to just try with me? We have tried everything else and I just need him to try.

I called up my consultant this morning and he has said to do a four month course of Clomid and see what happens. I'm very unclear as to how that would work as I ovulate fine anyway. Surely it's not going to do anything for us. He also suggested seeing a nutritionist to discuss my lining as that's a problem for us with me having a very regular first stage of 14 days but a short luteal phase of only 10 days. He said there are natural ways I can do this and it will be necessary with Clomid anyway as it'll eventually make it hard for implantation.

THIS IS BOLLOCKS

You should only be doing clomid if you're being monitored with ultrasound scans to assess ovarian response and development of your endometrial lining

Clomid can thin the lining so may make things worse if not monitored!

If you're already ovulating naturally and the issue is luteal phase defect, then what you need is progesterone pessaries post ovulation to extend your luteal phase and support implantation

A nutritionist is going to do fuck all

With respect, I think your consultant is talking out of his arse

@bananafish81 no no scans or monitoring just the instruction of taking them cd2-6 for four months.

I'm reluctant to leave he service and find another one as it's taken us three years to get to this point. By the time I get back to here again I'm 40 and it's too late.

I’m with Bananafish. Clomid will exacerbate your thin lining. Letrozole is an alternative but Injectables or IVF would be better and yes you definitely need progesterone pessaries beginning a few days after ovulation to support your luteal phase.

The more I hear about your consultant OP the more my eyebrows are raising and I feel really cross for you. You need a second opinion ASAP. This guy is a clown.

Is he an NHS consultant? Is there anyway you could get a private consultation with someone else for a second opinion?

@Lalalalalolololololo no he's a private consultant but we get it through the healthcare package my DH has from work so we pay a reduced price and the company pays the rest. My GP said we would be looking at an even longer time to wait if we went the NHS because it's really restricted in our area.

@Lalalalalolololololo @bananafish81 I only say I have a thin lining because that's what I've been told due to sometimes having a shorter luteal phase. My periods are strong and very normal (more normal than before falling pg) because at least now they are 26-28 days whereas before falling pregnant I had maybe four periods in the space of three years and they were all only a couple of days of light bleed and nothing then for months. Now it's regular, correctly coloured and fits most ideas of within the boundaries of being normal.

I had an ultrasound about a year ago and it was all normal then as far as I know. He just said it shows alongside my blood tests that I have low ovarian reserve.

Just a couple of things to add, acupuncture is surely a well respected alternative therapy? GPs learn how to do it and it can help in loads of things, fertility too, though I wouldn't know what aspects of it. Very different to "Chinese medicine" which is is very vague and does sound dodgy.

Also, please tell your parents or parents in law, whoever it is to stop going on about another child . that is so cruel! Can't you say, it just hasn't happened - it's not like we are preventing a pregnancy. Get them to shut up!

And, lastly! Please don't feel your son has to have a sibling to be happy. As long as he has cousins or friends to spend time with, that is great. A sibling now would be so much younger that he would probably be more of a pain and a hindrance to his life anyway!

I really wish you the best of luck. It just sounds like you are having such a great time with your son, you are in a new house, your husband enjoys time with his son and it all just seems spoiled because of chasing what may be an impossible dream. When really you have your dream already.

In your position I would give yourselves a 6 month chill period.

An agreement of no fertility talk. Maybe start meditation. Yoga. Book some weekends away together.

Set your self unrelated goals.

Read x amount of books
Learn a new skill
Make a quilt ect

Just anything to stop thinking about getting pregnant.

The reasses when the 6 months is over.

Destressing can help alot

@SeaCabbage my son is only 3. The smallest age gap in my family is four years and it was amazing it's goes as far as 21yrs which is brilliant too. I don't think the time between children is going to cause him a hinderance. He has a cousin but she lives 300miles away so we only see photos. As to friends he has school friends but in the holidays it's just us.

I feel about ready to just bin it off. Throw away all the baby stuff and just quit. Live my life feeling like I can't do the simplest things like make a child. It feels a shame to get rid of everything we have for a baby but maybe that's what is stopping it happening. I'll have a weekend clear out of DH will let me.

Our son was a product of karma so unless I get back into the same situation that won't help.

Sorry that was on the wrong conversation 🤦🏼‍♀️

My consultant has this as his intro for the "meet the team" on the hospital page:

Lead consultant gynaecologist (GMC no: 4342625)
Specialist areas: reproductive medicine, fertility investigations, IVF and ICSI, treatment of disorders of ovulation, gynaecological endocrinology, polycystic ovarian syndrome, ovulation induction, pelvic floor and vaginal surgery, andrology, male infertility and surgical sperm retrieval.

I've literally heard nothin but fantastic things about him. Awards, news articles, my friends twins are because of him. My MIL has nothing but fantastic things to say about him. I wonder if I went elsewhere I could take my file or if we would need to start all the tests again from the start.

no no scans or monitoring just the instruction of taking them cd2-6 for four months.

WRONG WRONG WRONG

Clomid should never be taken unmonitored

Without ultrasound it's impossible to assess ovarian response - if you've over responded and there are too many follicles for it to be safe to proceed. Or if it's not having any effect and therefore a higher dose is needed

Or to assess impact on lining development

I only say I have a thin lining because that's what I've been told due to sometimes having a shorter luteal phase.

There are two phases with the lining that matter

The development of the lining in the proliferative phase as it thickens before ovulation

Then the secretory phase where it needs to change appearance and stay thick enough for long enough to support implantation

Clomid can negatively impact the first phase

Short luteal phase means the issue is the second half and progesterone is needed to support the lining to support implantation

Your thin lining isn't thin lining - it's luteal phase defect. Thin endometrium means a lining that doesn't thicken sufficiently before ovulation (that's what is the root cause of my infertility)

The treatment he's proposing makes no sense and is being implemented poorly without sufficient oversight. And he doesn't appear to be treating the obvious issue you're actually mentioning

Just a couple of things to add, acupuncture is surely a well respected alternative therapy? GPs learn how to do it and it can help in loads of things, fertility too, though I wouldn't know what aspects of it. Very different to "Chinese medicine" which is is very vague and does sound dodgy.

No, GPs who may do acupuncture do dry needling. For example, patient with a painful shoulder and they may use needles to treat trigger points in the painful area. They don't do Chinese acupuncture which is what fertility acupuncture is. Whereby it's all about woo meridian lines and sticking a needle in your ankle is supposed to affect your ovaries or a needle in your forehead to affect your uterus

GPs who do acupuncture are doing trigger point therapy with needles. They're not treating a headache with magic energy lines and a needle in the toe.

I had an ultrasound about a year ago and it was all normal then as far as I know. He just said it shows alongside my blood tests that I have low ovarian reserve.

Depends when in the cycle this was done. A single ultrasound is only a snapshots in time

To assess ovarian reserve it needs to be a baseline scan right at the start of your cycle. The bloods need to have been taken between day 2-4 of your cycle

A baseline scan won't tell you anything about what your lining is doing throughout the cycle

If the scan was done at any other point in the cycle it's not necessarily going to give an accurate picture of ovarian reserve

it's a lot of pressure because all our family are constantly asking why we haven't had a baby and telling us it's not fair on our son to be alone

I've been there OP and I would simply tell the truth and shut the conversations down "I have secondary infertility and, short of going to a witch doctor, I'm trying everything and I don't want to talk about it. End of."

@DontCallMeCharlotte I've tried telling my mum that and she replied with "guess that's just one more thing you've let us down with" and "don't be stupid you're clearly doing it wrong. A drunk teenager can get pregnant without even trying so you're not doing it right obviously"

I've said to DH I'm going to get all of the baby stuff we have out and give it to the charity shop. He's really annoyed and said I can't do that because I just have to be patient. He says we need it all for when the baby is here and getting rid of it will cost us a fortune whe. We need it back.

I'd try acupuncture in your shoes.

I've had it loads of times for various things (not fertility related but hormone related) and it worked a miracle for me, where no four different consultants had drawn a complete blank.

We had the best fertility treatment money could buy and still had lots of issues. 6 months of Chinese herbs and acupuncture and we had two more children. It’s not a “sham” at all.

Also, our cutting edge fertility clinic was so blown away by the success of patients who had acupuncture that they now have a network of acupuncture practitioners that they refer to.

Just in case it helps - my DD is an only and her days are not silent and lonely. It sounds like your sons aren't either. I play with DD, my husband plays with DD, the dog plays with her... She sometimes slopes off to just get a bit of peace!

I wish you all the best TTCing but please don't consider that all onlies are sad and lonely without brothers and sisters to pester. It is perfectly possible for them to be engaged and fun children who love life and don't sit around feeling sad!

OP if you want to try acupuncture then by all means give it a go

But if you're seeing a fertility specialist then it would seem bonkers not to get a script for some progesterone pessaries which might be all that's needed.

If you don't do that and opt for the acupuncture route then would be worth temping if you're not already to monitor your luteal phase.

A fertility acupuncturist will probably recommend you do so anyway and will want to see your charts to evaluate your temps, CM etc

@Cath2907 I'm just speaking from my own experience. My best friend is an only child and he loves it. This conversation has probably made me realise we should just give up. At least now we can sell up and buy a smaller house, give away the baby stuff we have for "when the baby comes" and focus on just being a little family. I'm not going to pretend it's what I want and I'll always feel shit that I gave up and never had another baby. But common opinion seems to suggest I should learn to suck it up and do that.

I don't understand why you are being told there is such a long waiting list for private IVF. I've never heard of that - I've done it and so have a couple of friends and if you're paying you start when you like. The sum of money you've been quoted also seems crazy. As pp said, if you can afford around £4k now then have a first cycle and see how you go - then worry about saving for further cycles later. You may be lucky and not need to do more ... or you might decide that you don't want to put yourself through multiple cycles in which case no point saving for more. If around £4k is unaffordable for you then look at Access Fertility who do finance packages. They are much better value than what you've been quoted, and are cheaper the younger you are when you start.

If around £4k is unaffordable for you then look at Access Fertility who do finance packages. They are much better value than what you've been quoted, and are cheaper the younger you are when you start.

If Access fertility isn't an option due to low ovarian reserve then you can do a cycle of IVF in Greece or the Czech Republic for much less than £4k

OP you mentioned your son was conceived while on HRT. Is there a reason why you were on HRT previously?