To want to try a different approach?

[chocolateaddicted]

As a bit of a back story DH and I have a 3yr old son and started ttc March 2015 for our next one. So far nothing has happened for us and we have tried a lot of things to help us. Been to the gp and referred to a gynaecologist to advise. From that we have been given tests, I've had surgery, advised on stopping caffeine, sugar, alcohol, neither of us smoke so that's not an issue.

A friend told me to seek older medicine though and that a Chinese herbalist and more natural approach would work better. I went to see one on Monday and they have agreed they could help. I'm fact she started the appt by looking at me first to then tell ME what I was there for. The issue is though that they need to treat us both at the same time and DH is not really on board. He's super skeptic and thinks they're all just shams out for your money.

AIBU to want him to just try with me? We have tried everything else and I just need him to try.

You could try acupuncture, without your dh needing to. I know someone who had acupuncture as a medical trial when trying to conceive through IVF, it had high success rates compare to placebo acupuncture (which, I can only imagine, is sticking pins in the wrong places!!)

@bananafish81 I have had loads of tests done but don't understand the results as no one has ever explained them to me. I have copies of hem here and tried to look online but I couldn't understand that either. I used to think I was of average intelligence till all this and now I know I'm thick.

@Lalalalalolololololo all my time and effort does go into my son. I sometimes wonder if I would have the ability to love another child as I spend every minute I can with him. These school holidays are a dream as we can spend all day together just doing fun stuff and messing about. I'll miss that in September. Unfortunately his GP have got I. His ear and he's asking when we are having a baby and telling me it's not fair that everyone else does.

I think from this chat tonight I will just keep going at my OH to get him to change his ways. I think if I planned days out that were more exercise based (swimming, bike rides, walks) he might be more inclined. He feels bad that he sometimes works away so likes spending time at home as a priority.

I have heard (no proof though) that these Chinese herbal remedies can be dangerous

You have no idea what's in what is being given you, and it's not regulated so it could be anything. Here's an example: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/1343598/Chinese-herb-remedy-linked-with-cancer-of-the-kidneys.html

To a different poster They've been telling everyone for years cannabis is bad - er, no they haven't. They've been developing cannabis-based medicines for years and have just had the first one approved in the US for kids with rare epilepsy: www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jun/25/uk-epilepsy-drug-set-to-be-first-cannabis-based-medicine-on-us-market

What's your dh doing to save up op? You mention you are trying to save out of £380pm. How much is he saving?

Sorry OP when I said resources I meant money not love! You sound like a lovely mum. £50k would provide a lot of opportunities for your son that may be more valuable to his life than having a sibling. I’m an only child and I’ve appreciated having the option to choose the important people in my life rather than being stuck with them!

@Eliza9917 he's just finished paying off the moving costs and legal costs from the house and we are now saving what's left after bills and mortgage and food etc to pay into an account that will pay off the help to buy loan we took out (it's not due for repayment for another 4yrs but I hate being in a situation where something needs paying and I don't have the money for it). What left we split between our sons savings and our savings. Probably looking at a saving fund jointly of about £500 a month on a good month and that's without us having any unexpected payments needing to go out.

@Lalalalalolololololo ah ok. Well we put £250 a month into his savings so he will be able to buy a car, university, house deposit when the time comes. We are still undecided if this will continue when he's older (10ish) or if we will reduce it and give him the rest as pocket money and encourage him to save. I'm soft though so will probably do both 🤦🏼‍♀️

I'm he eldest of six and adored having my siblings around me because it was lonely sometimes growing up. Both our parents worked long long hours and I would have been alone a lot if I didn't have the others to look after. I did all my practice mum stuff then too so cheated when I had my own baby as I already knew what to do.

I go to acupuncture for headaches. My acupuncturist actually gets referrals / recommendations from the NHS for fertility issues (usually working alongside the IVF process as it can increase the chance of it working). She has extra qualifications and has done specific courses in the fertility area. She is always being sent baby photos from people she has treated who believe it helped them. She has never mentioned having to treat the man at the same time (though I've never asked).

I have heard some horror stories from Chinese herbalists, and acupuncture qualifications can vary widely.

I think it can work - not miracles but can work along side other medicine. Please research the specific type of acupuncture you need and ensure they are qualified / specialists in this area of acupuncture. I would say it's worth giving it a go by yourself. It should be relaxing at the very least. It's not really unreasonable of him not to go, especially if they are saying he would need lots of treatments as there isn't much if any scientific evidence that alternative remedies work in general (albeit lots of anecdotes) and if somewhere says you will need a course of treatments then it's a lot of money.

A good acupuncturist will -
Be properly qualified and registered and insured and be happy to discuss this

Usually just do acupuncture (not acupuncture, reiki, massage, reflexology etc)

Not pressure you to come back quickly and not try and get you to commit to going back regularly or pressure you (eg discounts for bulk booking or telling you upfront you'll need at least 10 treatments to see results)

I'd go by myself, see what it's like, then see if you can persuade him to go once to try it if the acupuncturist thinks it will help

it had high success rates compare to placebo acupuncture (which, I can only imagine, is sticking pins in the wrong places!!)

Not the case in most well designed trials. The control group uses the same points as the test group. The test 'sham acupuncture' group uses retractable needles

"sham treatment ... involved an identical looking and feeling needle that retracted into the handle on contact with the skin." This method requires the subject to feel like he's been stuck even if he hasn't."

Not sure chinese herbal remedies are a good idea but acupuncture and reflexology are medically acknowledged as complimentary treatments.

Both DH and I have found acupuncture useful in the treatment of pain. DH was totally sceptical but, as it was offered by his NHS physio, I persauded him to give it a go. He was very surprised to find it really did help.

I've no scientific proof but anecdotally, I think a reflexology treatment helped DD2's speedy conception.

Things like meditation are good skills to have to deal with all kinds of stress.

@AmIRightOrAMeringue there's a man locally who lists fertility as his specialism and he offers a free consultation first to explain the process, assess what it would require and I guess tell us how he could help. On FB another girl has replied to my search for recommendations saying he is fantastic and helped her. I didn't even realise she was doing that as she had a baby the same time I did and has since had three more quite quickly. She said each time she has gone to see him and it's worked after only a couple of sessions.

I'd definitely do my research. I'm not one for taking anything orally that I don't know what it is. I used to be unable to eat food in restaurants because I didn't know what was exactly in it! The acupuncture and yoga etc would be the only thing I would consider because if I hate it I could just stop.

@chocolateaddicted not thick at all. They're not exactly easy to interpret! Happy to offer a non medically qualified opinion from someone who's accumulated a lot of knowledge through the course of treatment, and have had loads of ovarian reserve tests. Can at least explain what the numbers are saying in layman's terms

@MumW my neighbour does reflexology as a side service (she's a physiotherapist by training) so I might have a word and see if she can recommend anyone.

Thank you everyone for tour input. I am not one for forcing people and if he thinks it's a sham I'll respect that. I think desperation plays a big part in my research and it's good to hear real people saying to avoid.

@bananafish81 I'll dig them out in the morning. I'm currently doing a rush job on a pair of trousers that need taking up for a wedding tomorrow. Never again will I trust Next to do next day delivery to save time going shopping 😆

Reflexology is the biggest pile of bullshit of them all, with the exception of homeopathy. There’ll always be someone who says they got a Chinese foot massage then miraculously conceived triplets the next day despite being 50 and having only one ovary.

Correlation does not equal causation. If you want to pursue another pregnancy OP you need to save up quickly and do an IVF cycle ASAP. Don’t waste your money on reflexology and don’t spend 8 years saving up 50 grand by which time you’ll be 44 and your chances of conceiving will be exactly zero.

@Lalalalalolololololo my youngest sibling was created purely by accident when her parents were 46 and 58 😆 there's 21yrs between us and that was not a planned situation. I know miracles and random things happen. My son was a miracle as he was conceived whilst I was on HRT and everyone told me that it would have been impossible. Well he's here now so there was clearly a minuscule chance.

Great to see so much healthy skepticism on here! Well done science-minded mumsnetters!

@LittleKitty1985 I came here to get a reality opinion more than anything else. As I said earlier I think three years and more of TTC has sown the seed of desperation and if someone sticking needles in me is the answer then I'll do it. If it's a load of tosh I'll avoid.

OP have you tried going gluten-free? Have a google, there are links between infertility and gluten even in non-coeliacs. One such study here

Btw I do eat wheat etc myself i.e. I'm not one of those people who believes in the mythical benefits of a gluten-free diet for the general population. Just might be worth trying in your case.

@chocolateaddicted I'm sorry that you're feeling so desperate. Unfortunately pseudoscientific heath scams rely on people's desperation and use it to con them out of money. If you're looking for reality-based info I can recommend this website: sciencebasedmedicine.org/reference/acupuncture/ (this is the acupuncture page, but it's very comprehensive for other claims too)

A specific science-based thing that you may want to try for your fertility is for you and your partner to reduce the sugar you eat (including refined white carbs). This is a recent study showing this, but there is more evidence if you search for it: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180213120426.htm

Good luck!

If everyone else stopped trying to enforce a second child onto you and making you believe something was wrong if you dont, do you think youd be as bothered?

I wonder if youd be happier if everyone else just stfu about it. One child must be such a joy in so many ways. There is so much that you can give to an only child that becomes a logistical nightmare with more.
I hate that women get this pressure even if youve already reproduced , to keep doing it more, and now theyve even got your kid saying it to you. Tell them all to back the fuck off. How can you possibly be happy with this constant pressure in your ear.

Link between gluten and infertility is primarily in those where autoimmune issues are behind infertility / recurrent miscarriage. Elevated NK cells or cytokines for example. Reproductive immunologists (which is a controversial area with a questionable evidence base, although anecdotally I know a LOT of people who've been successful with immunes treatment) may often recommend cutting out gluten in patients with high cytokines - my friend with recurrent miscarriage was advised to do so by her consultant. This was alongside a multitude of heavy duty and controversial immunosuppressive drugs, so it's not just the gluten. But it's true that it can be a factor

Sugar can make a difference in terms of oxidative stress which can impact egg or sperm quality. Low GL is also helpful for fertility in women with PCOS, to help restore ovulation (my consultant had me on low GL as part of my fertility treatment)

Won't do any harm, but just worth being realistic about being magic bullets

You won’t qualify for IVF on NHS as you already have a previous child. £50k is huge quote for IVF. Look into your local clinics most offer a free 121 appointment. If you have a CAREfertility clinic near you they definitely offer free consultation as I have been. We have Male Factor Infertility and so know the process and just about to start IVF. I think off top of my head one full round of IVF via care fertility was around £8k. There is a lot of research out there about acupuncture being helpful during the IVF process and lots of clinics actively recommend it. I have had acupuncture personally and have found it works for me. 48 days cycles reduced to a more standard 31 for example as a physiological change alongside numerous psychological benefits. Tricky if your DH isn’t on board but sometimes a frank conversation with them
Is what’s needed. If he wants a 2nd child like you do then he needs to do something to sort the issue out. IVF is brutal particularly on the woman so why not try to fix it without needing that first? Show him the research and the facts. That what’s I did with my DH. He came around in the the end. We have seen an improvement in morphology through acupuncture and supplements alongside usual advice of eating well exercising limiting alcohol etc.

@Branleuse even if I wasn't being asked constantly about having another one I would still be doing this. I'm the eldest of five in the family but I hated the weekends at my dads where I was an only child. It was lonely, it was silent and it was a lot of time where I was sat in my room doing something by myself. Much much better we're the days back at home where I had the baby to look after my brothers to talk to and there was fun and laughter everywhere. I want that for my son. He's only got me to play with and that's not fair. He needs children too.

@Mrsjones17 he's trying to get on board with it and he's at least sleeping with me which was a major barrier at first because he wasn't at all a very physical person (he is very very very sensitive to touch and so pulls away from people- no hugs no stroking his arm, holding his hand etc) so he's come a long way. It's the hold caffeine has on him. I'm sneaky and cut down on it for him by getting him decaf tea and coffee (I know it's not caffeine free but it is reduced a bit) and I refuse to buy him his Diet Coke drinks because of the sweeteners used.

I called up my consultant this morning and he has said to do a four month course of Clomid and see what happens. I'm very unclear as to how that would work as I ovulate fine anyway. Surely it's not going to do anything for us. He also suggested seeing a nutritionist to discuss my lining as that's a problem for us with me having a very regular first stage of 14 days but a short luteal phase of only 10 days. He said there are natural ways I can do this and it will be necessary with Clomid anyway as it'll eventually make it hard for implantation.

Thank you again everyone

I should add that I speak as someone who believes it's all woo bollocks but STILL pissed hundreds, almost certainly thousands, of £££ on various alternative therapies during the course of my infertility journey

Including

Fertility acupuncture with a renowned fertility acupuncturist who worked with lots of top clinics (hated it, would lie there getting pissed off listening to plinky music thinking as every minute went past, well that's another quid I'll never get back)

Fertility reflexology (not even a decent foot rub as she was focusing on 'points connected to the ovaries and uterus' whereas I might have at least enjoyed it if it was a proper foot massage)

Mayan abdominal massage for endometrial lining

Castor oil packs

Gallons of pomegranate juice

Thousands on supplements

Daily wheatgrass shots that tasted like lawnmower cuttings (some fucker on the Internet said it helped lower their FSH)

Probably shitloads more I can't even remember

Not because I believed ANY of it had the slightest chance of working

But because I felt guilty in case I looked back and blamed myself because I 'could have tried harder'

My IVF was all unsuccessful and funnily enough the woo just emptied my pockets even more

Do therapies if you find them enjoyable or relaxing but don't do them out of desperation or because some randoms on the Internet said it worked for them!