To want to try a different approach?

[chocolateaddicted]

As a bit of a back story DH and I have a 3yr old son and started ttc March 2015 for our next one. So far nothing has happened for us and we have tried a lot of things to help us. Been to the gp and referred to a gynaecologist to advise. From that we have been given tests, I've had surgery, advised on stopping caffeine, sugar, alcohol, neither of us smoke so that's not an issue.

A friend told me to seek older medicine though and that a Chinese herbalist and more natural approach would work better. I went to see one on Monday and they have agreed they could help. I'm fact she started the appt by looking at me first to then tell ME what I was there for. The issue is though that they need to treat us both at the same time and DH is not really on board. He's super skeptic and thinks they're all just shams out for your money.

AIBU to want him to just try with me? We have tried everything else and I just need him to try.

@Rebecca36 they found lots of things wrong. Low ovarian reserve, endometriosis (fixed with surgery for now) and the fact I have low iron despite being on four supplements a day for the last three years. I conceived my son whilst on HRT but they won't do that again.

You're being completely ripped off. Sorry. But a cycle of IVF should cost in the region of 3k. Even if you add on ICSI, say for sperm motility that's 775. Then if you looked at genetic testing you'd still only be looking at about 3k. That's no where near your quote.

Also you need to compare success rates by 'embryo transferred' not "embryo transfer' of "cumulative" these are used by unscrupulous clinics to manipulate their figures. The regulator HFEA states by embryo transferred is the method you should use.

Also are your success rates by clinical pregnancy or live births. Very different measurements.

Please, it sounds like your specialists are ripping you off and they wouldn't be advising you to wait. Your egg quality is declining every year, dramatically. Sorry.

Ok so you have low ovarian reserve, DH’s sperm isnt great and you’re being advised to wait several years to raise money? Sorry but that’s so mental. I really think you need a second opinion. I can recommend someone fantastic in London but don’t know where you are.

My very well respected gynae consultant recommends acupuncture. He said he’s honestly not sure why it works but in 16 years treating infertility and recurrent miscarriage he’s sure it does.

Low ovarian reserve is only going to get lower. Sperm quality is only going to decrease over time. Waiting until you can afford 4 cycles before you even try is crazy.

I’m going to trigger warning my post as being really quite harsh.

I apologise if it upsets you, and I understand if you don’t want to read it.

It doesn’t sound like your DH can be bothered. Do you really want another baby with someone to change minor stuff like caffeine and exercise?

Also it might be helpful to tell family to stfu. It’s not polite and not their business.

Give serious consideration to putting all your love and energy into your son and marriage instead of treatment. It’s not easy and with a child to look after already and a husband that can’t be bothered you are risking your family to grow your family.

We honestly wouldn't be able to afford everything right his second. It would break us financially so a long waiting list isn't the issue. We started speaking to him Sept 2015 and he put me on the waiting list for laparoscopy which I finally got in April 2018 but only due to a cancellation.

I think the price he has quoted includes everything we will need to pay for like consultant meetings, medication, procedures, aftercare. I sort of thought everything was expensive medically. I went to get a quote for laser surgery last month and it would be £11560 for me! It's just expensive I think.

Having said that, I do think acupuncture is worth a go, but make sure you get someone approved

www.acupuncture.org.uk/a-to-z-of-conditions/a-to-z-of-conditions/female-fertility.html

The nhs says to look here for practitioners.

Yes stuff is expensive, but I know multiple people who have had IVF and none of them have been quoted (or paid) anywhere near that amount. My cousin is 43 with low ovarian reserve and her partner has almost zero sperm count, and they have been quoted approx £15k.
Anyway that’s all by the by. If your partner isn’t willing to do the easy, free things to improve your chances then he’s not going to want to spend a fortune on IVF I wouldn’t have thought?

Where are you getting quotes?!!! My laser surgery was LASEK with all the extras and that was £2100.

Seriously though. I work in IVF. The prices I gave you are all inclusive and the clinic I've quoted has the highest live birth rates by embryo transferred in the UK. (51%)

You're being ripped off. Simple.

@Treacletoots it's for lasik iDesign but I'll have to have it done 5/6 times three months apart each time due to a high prescription. That means a lot of appointments and eye consultations and all the medicine. It's he best quote I've found from he people who will do it. I'm not going to do it. I can't afford that sort of money.

My DH has tried to cut down his coffee intake but he has somewhere found something that said alcohol in moderation isn't detrimental so he's taken that and stuck by it. As for exercise he just has a job that means he has to sit at his seat all day and by the time he gets home he's more likely to play about with our son than want to go to the gym or have a run etc. He does the school run twice a week most weeks and that's a positive improvement.

We are willing to spend money if we can save it up. My OH especially would rather pay to get it fixed than keep being disappointed each month. I'll just have to keep saving. It's hard though because I only make £380 a month after tax and pension and childcare. That has to go towards the household. I am cutting back though and we have settled down a lot recently after moving house and having that to pay for. We literally used up our savings on a deposit and legal fees.

I'll not do anything. The overall opinion seems to be to avoid and just save for IVF or give up and just settle. It's heartbreaking to just give up as we've put so much effort in but I guess it's the right option.

Chinese medicine can't overcoming poor morphology. IUI is pointless because all it's doing is delivering the same sperm a couple of inches higher up. For poor morphology the solution is ICSI so the embryologist can select a normal looking swimmer to inject directly into the egg.

There are sperm improvement regimens that can help with sperm quality in terms of DNA fragmentation - I don't know if they would have any impact whatsoever on morphology, but that would be the best route to improving your chances of conceiving naturally if male factor is the issue. High doses of anti oxidants and potentially long courses of antibiotics. Preferably see an andrologist in the UK, or alternatively do the hidden infection tests with serum clinic in Athens, which bizarrely involves sending your husband's spunk to Greece. If appropriate they can issue a script for the recommended course of antibiotics. High dose of antioxidants to reduce oxidative stress is something that doesn't require seeing a clinician that he could easily do. But he'd have to be serious about wanting to do this

If you're serious about wanting to do anything alternative then I'd opt for high dose antioxidants for egg quality over acupuncture. If acupuncture has any actual benefit for infertility over and above stress management (which I don't believe it does), it's most likely related to stimulating uterine blood flow to support endometrial lining. It won't magically cure low ovarian reserve or via you sort your husband's swimmers out

You can also go abroad to Czech or Greece for IVF that's significantly more affordable. But you'd have to both be committed to pursuing these avenues, which it doesn't sound like it is the case...

*can't overcome

How old are you? The reason I ask is that Access Fertility are a company who provide financing packages for IVF. They have literally in the last month launched a package that includes as many cycles as you need for a set fee. I can't remember the exact figure but think it's about 11k.

This is dependent on your age though and MOST reputable clinics offer these packages so you have a choice. Just saying, you have options.

@Treacletoots ovarian reserve is usually part of the criteria for access fertility, so acceptance into the scheme also depends on the OP's AMH and antral follicle count

We are 36 and 38. We did t meet till late in life. I hadn't had a boyfriend for years due to certain personal issues and we only slept together once before finding out I was pregnant with our son. It was literally that easy. Now he's in denial that we should change anything because he knows it all works apparently.

I'd love a way to improve my endometrial lining if that was possible but again that's given contradictory advice wherever I look.

@bananafish81 how would I find out what those results were?

@chocolateaddicted how do you know that you have low ovarian reserve unless you've had those tests done already? Unless they were years ago, in which case yes you'd need them repeating

I’m very sorry you’re going through this OP, it must be utterly heartbreaking. To be completely honest it does sound like you would be spending vast amounts of money that you don’t have for a very small chance at another pregnancy. Perhaps in this situation it might be best to put your resources into the lovely child you have. I’d also be worried that your husband could blow your chances at IVF given his apparent reluctance to make small lifestyle changes that could be vital to it’s success.

In all fairness would it not be better to try though and even if it was a placebo the mental effect would be beneficial to us.

Yes, give it a go if you feel it will be beneficial to you.

Where do people think 'real medicine' came from? It came from natural remedies and herbs and all the rest of it in the past.

Big pharma have just indoctrinated everyone to believe natural stuff is all bollox. Some may be, but a lot isn't. I believe a lot of things (not everything) can be treated or prevented through diet etc.

They've been telling everyone for years cannabis is bad, and just look at what the oil can treat.

We gave up alcohol, added Yoga, meditation, little walk in the evening...and temperature charting. I was hugely sceptical but turned out my cycles were 34 days long and we were trying at completely the wrong time.

Sorry you're struggling. My consultant recommended Condensyl to support the sperm quality prior to us going for IVF. We had to buy them online but they weren't too expensive (I think you could get 3 months worth for maybe around £120). I hadn't heard of them despite my obsessive googling before my doctor mentioned them so maybe worth you looking into?

Maybe so Eliza but some ground up bear gallbladder or whatever isn’t going to magic up some more eggs into OP’s ovaries. They are contending with pretty profound male and female factor subfertility.

@bananafish81 good point.... I'm just frustrated for OP and don't want her to be ripped off. At 36 she really can't waiti much longer. So many older celebs have babies by donor egg and don't admit it.. so women think their fertility is fine in their mid 40s. So not the case.

Big pharma have just indoctrinated everyone to believe natural stuff is all bollox.

No. It's unproven. Look at meta analyses of the body of research, RCTs investigating the effect of acupuncture. No evidence as yet for a multitude of conditions above and beyond a small group (I can't remember exactly but I think it's back and neck pain, possibly headache? Which makes sense insofar as the needles in trigger points are no different to dry needling that's used by many physiotherapists). The thing about the scientific method is that opinions change when new evidence comes to light. So if new evidence showing the proven efficacy of acupuncture is published, then it is proven to 'work'