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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think that some types of 'western dress' e.g; high heels are as oppressive as the burka?

529 replies

malificent7 · 08/08/2018 12:51

Don't get me wrong; I have worn heels in the past in the dubious hope that they look 'sexy.' I have mostly ended up hobbling along at the end of the evening in pain and fed up, envious of those wearing trainers.
I do realise that women have a 'choice ' to wear garments such as heels, mini skirts and boob tubes but aibu to think that they are not garments of liberation but rather an over sexualised aesthetic imposed by the patriarchy.

I am not a massive fan of the burka and I do think that they have been enforced by the patriarchy for a different reason; to protect the modesty of the woman. I am very against the burka ban and I think Boris Johnson is a prick for his comments.

So both types of dress control women in different ways; the western dress to promote sexuality and the burka to hide it.

In short, women should wear what they want without government enforcement and comments from Boris and his ilk.

And before we talk about seeing women's faces when we talk to them and the obstruction to that that the burka causes; what about a full face of slap that many western girls embrace now?

OP posts:
Oliversmumsarmy · 10/08/2018 11:21

I think op you are looking at wearing high heels and mini skirts etc because you wanted to feel sexy when anyone I know who wears this type of attire is because they want to.

DD wears mini skirts and high heels because she has very long legs and it makes her look good. Being sexy doesn't come into it.

Having just returned from a hot country i just felt sorry for the Muslim women in 42 degree heat covered from head to toe and their husbands and sons are in shorts and t.shirts. it was boiling whist in a summer dress. I cannot imagine how hot it would be to have your head, body arms and legs covered

LuluJakey1 · 10/08/2018 11:40

How would you feel if someone got on a plane or a bus or a train or came into a shop and was dressed like this?
I don't think they would be allowed but I would be intimidated. I can't see the difference between choosing to wear this and choosing a niqab or burqa.

Thatsfuckingshit · 10/08/2018 12:06

I thought men do adhere to dress codes? Isn’t that why the orthodox Muslim men wear white robes?

I don't know any Muslim man who wears robes everyday. I know loads who where them some days an not others. Do women wear the niqab some days and not others?

BananaToffo · 10/08/2018 12:07

LonelyStranger

I am not aware of a single religion (or any group) that expects men to cover their entire bodies including their faces.

Now, please answer the question I asked you. Why do women, and not men, have to do this? What is the difference between men and women in this instance?

MeyMary · 10/08/2018 12:08

I think op you are looking at wearing high heels and mini skirts etc because you wanted to feel sexy when anyone I know who wears this type of attire is because they want to

I wore higheels and a skirt on the first "real" date I had with my now DH...

Why? Because I wanted to... They made me feel sexy, confident. I wanted to feel this way.

And they give me a me a few inches of height. (I'm pretty tiny, tbh...)
And I simply like how they look.

Are the reasons behind me feeling this way about heels potentially oppressive or patriarchal?

Yes. Are my reasons better or worse than wearing an other peace of clothing because it makes someone feel modest? No, obviously not.

But I had as always a pair of simple ballet flats in my bag.

I wouldn't have had to fear any repercussions for taking my heels off...

There is no country in this world (or mainstream religion, I'm sure there's some weird cult somewhere) that requires women to wear heels...

Thatsfuckingshit · 10/08/2018 12:10

How would you feel if someone got on a plane or a bus or a train or came into a shop and was dressed like this?

I often wonder this. My ex do couldn't even get petrol when on his motorbike, without taking off his helmet and balaclava. Petrol stations owners, felt it was intimidating and they were more likely to be robbed if he wasn't showing his face.

I really don't like the idea that one person must uncover their face, but another doesn't have to if they claim it's their religion. I think people should be allowed to practice their religion. I don't think it should impact other people or entitle them so something other people wouldn't be allowed to do. I don't really understand why the minute some one says 'it's my religion, certain rules don't apply to them.

shinyredbus · 10/08/2018 12:12

Op - you sound v. silly. Are you comparing the burka to high heels? Confused

DrNuShooz · 10/08/2018 12:15

And before we talk about seeing women's faces when we talk to them and the obstruction to that that the burka causes; what about a full face of slap that many western girls embrace now

You do realise that your virtue signalling has made you hate your own culture, don't you? I mean, how else can a sane person compare make up and a burka.

DrNuShooz · 10/08/2018 12:16

Also, can we be honest and say the Burqa has NOTHING to do with the religion of Islam.

It's a cultural thing, not a religious thing.

BitchQueen90 · 10/08/2018 12:19

The comparison with wearing balaclavas and motorbike helmets is a bit silly imo. There is a history of banks and petrol stations being robbed by people wearing those things which is why they aren't allowed. A lot of people wear them deliberately to be intimidating.

There's no history of women wearing niqabs robbing banks here. And they're not wearing them to intimidate other people, they're minding their own business!

dovegrey18 · 10/08/2018 12:24

Agree OP

Cuppaorwine · 10/08/2018 12:28

They may be minding their own business but by dressing in a burka you are inherently signalling that women need to dress modestly so that they don’t inflame men.

It has nothing to do with Islam it’s a recent mysogynistic ridiculous sexist invention.

It’s the good girl/bad girl crap women have been fighting against for generations and I think definatly the full face covering should be banned here as it doesn’t accord with British values and the way women should be viewed.

Regards little girls covering up total ban.

BananaToffo · 10/08/2018 12:28

DrNu

I don't think you can say that, really. It's true that there's no Koranic tradition, and Mohammed only vaguely talked about women covering up in reponse to a question - so it doesn't come directly from scriptures, no.

But most, if not all, people who insist on the burka feel that they are doing so for religious reasons. And since all religions, including Islam, are invented nonsense anyway, who is to decides what counts as religion?

Find me the atheistic, cultural Muslim who supports the burka and I'll agree you have a point.

derxa · 10/08/2018 12:28

I think the niqab erases you as an individual. I watched a debate featuring 3 women wearing niqab and as well as not remembering who they were I actually couldn't remember who said what. Yasmin A-B was opposing their views and I can still picture her and what she said. The face is so important for communication.

LuluJakey1 · 10/08/2018 12:36

Or this one - which is a motorbike thing. I would be very intimidated by someone wearing this in a street, shop or any public place really.

I don't understand why people can not see how some of us feel the same way about burqas and niqabs.

I don't accept the argument that people wearing them are minding their own business- we don't know that. There are many examples around the world of that not being the case. I recall a case in Manchester where a gang of men dressed in burqas were carrying machetes and robbing large stores.

As I have said, I have no issues at all with the chador or hijab but I do think hijab and burqas are intimidating. For some reason it is a view often dismissed but it seems to me whilst we stop people wearing balaclavas and ski masks because they are intimidating and mask identity, we are not prepared as a society to speak about the possibility of burqas and niqab doing similar.

To think that some types of 'western dress' e.g; high heels are as oppressive as the burka?
BitchQueen90 · 10/08/2018 12:38

As soon as you ban people from wearing a certain item of clothing you are no longer a democratic country and I don't want to live somewhere where a government tells anyone what they can or cannot wear.

MorrisZapp · 10/08/2018 12:40

You won't get a meaningful answer as to why women cover but men don't. I've been asking in good faith for years.

You'll get 'well men and women are both meant to be modest'

And 'I don't know why men don't cover, but I do it to feel close to my god'

And 'in some particular communities, men do cover'.

DrNuShooz · 10/08/2018 12:42

As soon as you ban people from wearing a certain item of clothing you are no longer a democratic country and I don't want to live somewhere where a government tells anyone what they can or cannot wear

So Denmark isn't a democratic country? ..........right.

Cuppaorwine · 10/08/2018 12:44

Bitch

Government bans smoking in public places for the good of the nation.

Government should stand up for the rights of women to be seen as functioning participating human beings not a homogeneous mass of black with no faces on show.

I want my government to signal that in this society women do not have to cover up to be modest and not inflame men.

Democracy is about enduring all people are seen, heard and matter.

The burka is a symbol of oppression mysogyny and an insult to all women.

It’s not a religious requirement and should in my view be banned in public places.

BitchQueen90 · 10/08/2018 12:46

@cuppaorwine that's to do with health reasons. Smoking kills. Nobody ever died from walking past someone wearing a niqab. Hmm

LuluJakey1 · 10/08/2018 12:47

BitchQueen How would you feel about this? Apparently he dresses like this in public all the time- streets, supermarkets. Should he be allowed?

To think that some types of 'western dress' e.g; high heels are as oppressive as the burka?
LonelyStranger · 10/08/2018 12:49

banana I can only state what I know, and I know men are for example required to grow beards (in various religions such as Judaism, Islam, Sikhism) ...maybe it’s a bit much asking them to then wear a veil over the beards...imagine the tangles Grin

Maybe the issue banana is that there isn’t a single society that has actually given equal rights to men and women, maybe this is a far greater issue, otherwise why are there pay gaps, why are women taking on their husbands names like they’re possessions. It’s not one instance (the example here)?

BitchQueen90 · 10/08/2018 12:51

@LuluJakey1 that's a symbolism of religious hatred. A niqab isn't.

LonelyStranger · 10/08/2018 12:51

MorrisZap men are required to adorn certain clothing too, look at Orthodox Jews (head covered), Muslim orthodox men (robe with head covered), orthodox Sikhs (head covered). That is a covering is it not?
They’re also required to grow beards...pretty covering if you ask me Grin