To be worried have inadvertently become a CF?!

[LartenCrepsley]

MN jury, am I a CF? All the recent CF threads have got me questioning this...
I teach at a small independent school. I’ve been there several years and, although it pays significantly less (£10k-ish) than teaching in a state school would, there are several perks to working there, the biggest being reduced prices for my two DC. I’m charged no tuition fees. I know I am very lucky in this respect.
It’s a private school so obviously uniform is a big thing. The uniform is very specific and the policy is strictly enforced (by me and my colleagues). The uniform is only available from one shop and it’s eye-wateringly expensive (one summer dress is £45! A blazer can cost up to £85.). However the uniform is very good quality and lasts well. We regularly get donations of pristine uniform pupils have out-grown. These donations are sold at school to boost our funds a bit. The used uniform sale brings in around £50 a year, so it’s not a huge amount. I have been helping myself to uniform to kit out both DC. I have not been donating any money in return. When the uniform is finished with, I will return it all to school.
AIBU? CF? Or is this ok?

You are taking advantage at best. I agree with Loopy.

I tbought your Q was if it was CFery to get first dibs on the second hand stuff and buy it before it gets put out for sale, not if it's ok to just steal it! Of course that's not ok!

Obviously you should make the same sort of donation that anyone else would. You don't just help yourself! (though I could excuse you having first pick if you are helping to run the uniform collection and sale).

Am i the only one who thinks the OP is unreasonable. If it was an average parent, they'd have to pay a donation to get the second hand uniform, but the OP, by virtue of being a teacher, gets it free. I feel as if she is robbing another parent from getting their child the uniform (legitimately by giving a.donation).

The same thing happens at my children's school. I would not be happy knowing the uniforms I provided were being used in this way and that no donations were being made. And the fact they were being used by non fee paying children would only exacerbate the issue, sorry if I sound like a snob. What would happen if an item of clothing became too worn to wear? Would you make a donation then? Very unreasonable and entitled behavior. Also, why should you get first choice?

thought school fees were now a taxable benefit?

OP - the £50 that the second hand uniform sale makes, where does that money go to? Is it the Parents Association? Is it towards tea/coffee for social events run through the school, where?? If your HT won't accept any money for the uniform, you're not paying him/her for it, your paying the school. That is where the money should be going. If they won't accept you paying for it, at the next sale, put some money in the kitty for this particular stall and be done with it.
As for this post:
On the back of this thread I phoned the boss/owner and explained that I was feeling a bit uncomfortable about accepting the uniform. He has said he won’t accept any money for it - you're not accepting the uniform. You're actually taking it. Free gratis and for nothing. Other parents don't have this luxury.
This is unacceptable and you must see how unacceptable it is.

It really isn't any wonder how little the second hand uniform sale makes if this is what goes on in the run up to it.

Morally I think yabu. Parents donate their used uniforms back to the school to make it a little cheaper for other parents, and the school benefits from the (albeit small) amount raised. How much would have been raised if you hadn't kitted 2 children out?

You already benefit from fee free schooling by virtue of teaching there. Anything arranged to raise money means you are technically stealing from the donation pot.

However; if the school staff are all fine with it, and perhaps do it themselves (hence the low amount raised), then it becomes a matter for your conscience.

Our (state primary) has found that uniform sales don't raise much either. So at the end of every term they pull out all the unclaimed list property and let people pick and choose what they need. The theory being if it hasn't been claimed then it is unwanted.

Meanwhile the parents who donated the uniforms think the money raised is going towards better facilities for all the pupils...

Sorry, but I think this is really cheeky. They are donated from kind people who have paid full price for these, in return they expect the uniforms to be sold on to raise funds for the school. You are just taking these items for your own use & so the school are missing out on funds. It is stealing IMO.

I've calculated for my sons secondary school (fee paying in Ireland) the cost of kitting him out from the uniform shop (without taking into account socks or jocks) would be €395.46 for new items of uniform. Now I know that some of the items (e.g. school trousers) can be sourced elsewhere but that makes a tiny difference in the price of his uniform. When the Parents Association in his school organises the second hand uniform sale it is from items in Lost Property and items that have been donated to the school (final year students no longer needing their uniforms, pupils growing out of their uniforms etc.) and they make a lot more than the equivalent of £50 from it.
School jumpers that cost €45 new get sold for €15 second hand. None of this money gets lost in the system. It is all accounted for and goes towards events for the pupils of the school.

No matter how big or small your school is, the way the situation is currently being handled is completely wrong and should be addressed, either by the Parents Association (hand over the running of the lost property and second hand uniform sale to them entirely) or by the staff but it simply must be above board with no one skimming off the top!

I have never felt so strongly about a post on MN as I have by this one. It's given me the rage!!!

I haven't read all the posts but I am a very active PTA member in a school and always end up donating more just to support them. I pay extra for cakes/uniforms and then always buy extra raffle prizes and often buy the coffee/tea/milk for events out of my money as it all goes to the children.
I also don't think you have inadvertently become a CF. You always were one, you've just inadvertently realised it. Sorry.

I have not been donating any money in return.

I think you should donate for the items you take!

Yes you are being a CF. You pick over the best bis and take them for free, its bad ethics.

Also, how does this only make £50 a year for the school????

There was a lady in my home town who did a second hand uniform shop out of her garage for all the private schools, she took a commission on anything of yours that sold. Was great.

My mum used to run the second hand shops at our schools for this same reason. To be fair it was a lot of work so she did "pay" in a way. 4 of us. All on significant bursaries that didn't stretch to clothes in the 80s.

I did think you were a CF but based on your updates it might just be worth having a clearer structure in place for donated uniform as it seems like the school can't be arsed to do anything with it hence its given to you as at least it is being used. Or do they assume others wont want it if its an affluent school? Maybe ask people to 'donate' unwanted uniform and pick a day when it's all brought out for parents to pick from who wish to, yourself included, maybe you'll be the only one but seems fair ? It's better your kids and others wear it than it going to landfill even if it doesn't raise funds, more of a swap shop

Is this for real? I teach in independent school (have taught in a few, know others through colleagues) and I have NEVER come across: a school that has an "owner" rather than a board/trust - they're meant to be charities not properties; a school with no bursaries (none??); or a school that offers 100% fee reduction for staff. Standard is 50% for full timers, and pro rata for part timers (eg for one day a week only 10% fee reduction). The whole school sounds like cf to me!

Oh and btw, first dibs on the uniforms = perk of the job. For the same price as everyone else pays.

OP, it sounds like you feel guilty if you're bothered enough to phone the HT. Despite what he says, maybe pop a donation in the pot next time.

"LartenCrepsley

It may be relevant that all my colleagues (including the owner of the school) know I am borrowing the uniform."

Then it's not stealing or cheeky or someone would have told you to knock it off already and you might have been disciplined.

I do think you should make a donation though and return them to the school once outgrown.

Also just because other teachers / your head at the school "know" you take the uniform, this is still very different from asking and getting permission. Just because they're aware of the fact you do this it doesn't mean they agree with it, it may be that they just don't feel quite that it's worth kicking up a stink over / making a formal complaint over, as I'm sure you're otherwise very good at your job. Doesn't mean they don't think or agree between themselves that you're a CF though.

Even with all the drip feed updates i still think you are a cheeky fucker.

This is totally fine.
In fact, take a tenner out of the donations too for a bottle of wine.
Why not?

U R A CF.

No you aren’t a cheeky fucker you’re a thief. You are appropriating property that does not belong to you and others are expected to pay for. Make a bloody donation. We all have to.

You should definitely be making a donation, of the same amount as you would be expecting non-staff parents to make. I agree with other posters that not making a donation is effectively stealing. The uniforms were given with the expectation that the money raised would go to the school funds - no wonder not much money is being raised if you are taking the uniform without paying for it!

By all means choose the best one, as a perk but you should donate. Yabu.

It’s a breach of trust. The uniforms are donated to the school to be sold to raise funds...not to line the pockets of teachers!