to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

[Clairetree1]

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

BlaaBlaaBlaa public transport system in Yorkshire may be ok if you visit occasionally, are flexible and can plan your trip in advance. But not if you actually live there and have 20 minutes between school and nursery dropoff to get to work every morning and then the same between end of work and nursery closing in the evening.

If all of that is true then you must realise that the public transport system in Yorkshire is abysmal!

well, Yorkshire is a big place, my experience is that it is very good, maybe in other places not so much, similarly my experience of Devon is that the public transport is terrible, but it is also a big place, maybe not so bad in other areas.

I was asked what my personal experience of good and bad places are- I really think public transport overall in the UK is not so bad, obviously there are some people it just doesn't work for, but I think a lot of people rule it out unnecessarily

Autumadness

Let’s get real electric bikes work just as well as electric cars

I work freelance in different places. One place is a 15 minute bus and 5 minute tram. No problem. One is a 10 minute train, 30 minute tram, 20 minute bus and 30 minute walk. Or a 30 minute drive. Sometimes public transport is not adequate at all.. And these are all within suburbs of Manchester so hardly rural.

I have a family member who lives in a 700 person village with one bus into the nearest town every 4 hours. How anyone there lives without a car I don't know.

I regularly meet a client.

Although I have a train station that I currently have to drive to, their town doesn’t.

The public transport journey is train, train, bus, bus, walk. 1 hour and 45 minutes IF all connections are made.

Car - 17 minutes over the tops.

( side converstion!)
Why is your school open? Is it private, or a Free School? Ours is completely and utterly closed

is it? I don't know- I've never worked in a school that is closed during the summer - when do you reorganise your classrooms and stuff like that?

Ours was closed at Christmas, first time I've ever come across that too. And it is closed most weekends, which I like, as the expectation in previous schools has been very much staff should be offering intervention and revision at weekends and on bank holidays, which doesn't happen here, thank God!

But Easter and summer open all day every day. Easter and half term for revision sessions of course, summer just for staff admin

alcohol, smoking and obesity may be expensive for the country, and kill the individual involved, but they do not poison the air, cause global warming, destroy the environment and gridlock the transport system to such an extent that people cannot move around, like private cars do

I've visited Singapore not many cars, it is extremely expensive to own one and I believe the Government only releases a few permits per year and for a certain time period (not indefinitely like 10 years) Public transport is good and less pollution. In Cuba, very few people own a car, so people use public transport. In UK I know people who commute up to 5 hours per day in their car to work. I've just priced up a holiday in UK, £300 on train or £100 by car. I've had times with no car, I was fitter, but it restricted what and where I could go. A car or motorbike gives you freedom. I've also used my car to collect wood and metal to recycle. Are any journeys unnecessary, surely it depends on your out look on transport and your lifestyle

You are right to some degree, if I lived in the city I would bus, cycle or walk like I used to but now I live outside the city and frequently visit by car, a car is much quicker and come end of August I will be at college in the city which is 25minute drive versus up to two hours on public transport and 2 buses.

If I visit friends and we go out out and about we tend to leave the car at theirs and either pool together or walk, bus to our destination depending on distance.

To be fair Ivy I did know someone who transported a fridge on public transport after an offer for a lift fell through

I've lived in two different parts of Yorkshire and travelled extensively across the county. It's abysmal.

In my last job my team's job was to travel across Yorkshire - to schools, colleges and community centres, so places that should be easily accessible. We tried to encourage the use of public transport but had to resort to using cars as staff were constantly late and we were losing contracts.
We now insist on a driving license when recruiting as the job is virtually impossible on public transport.

Less pollution in Singapore? My chest was closing from the smog when I went there.

Jeanclaud

But there will be people living in that village without a car because they can’t afford a private car, so if more buses were subside then there would be more buses

So the poor lose out as they don’t have the money to be privileged in owning a car

Less pollution in Singapore? My chest was closing from the smog when I went there.

Singapore Smog comes from Indonesia burning forests though, not road vehicles. Yes it is bad, but no it isn't the same as ours

And yes I've had one of these public transport "superfans" in an interview. They assured my they had this amazing app on their phone that could get them anywhere, could get to the outer Hebrides on public transport. Late for their first two jobs in schools in rural Rochdale. Why? Missed bus, missed tram chain reaction.

Snuggybuggy

To be fair I’ve cycled past a man carrying a fridge on a pushbike - but that was in Cuba

But didn’t think it was fair representation of what is usual on a bike, he had it precariously balanced on his shoulder...😮

I haven't read the whole thread but this on the first page!:

not driving restricts you in a way you never understand unless you drive and I actually think it should be mandatory for women with children to drive

Ha! What about men? Because I can drive but my partner doesn't. Should he learn?

We don't have a car anyway as we live in London and have excellent public transport- one of the reasons we won't be moving is we don't want to run a car. We could afford one. It would sit on the street 6 out of 7 days and we have a car club round the corner. We have bicycles and bike seats and travelcards and legs.

We do everything we want to do and can just get taxis. Loads of our friends are car-less too.

I'm from a very rural area and do appreciate that it's needed in some places- we just don't live there! I will hire one if I HAVE to, but hate it.

I agree ivykaty, it's a joke that the buses are in such a state. They've been cut from 2 an hour to 1 every 4 because of cuts, and people's employment opportunities are suffering. So rural living is slowly becoming the preserve of the rich really, because you need a car. I don't agree with it, it just seems to be happening unfortunately

Pollution has now been linked to heart disease...

Sweden is very expensive for private vehicles as the tax is 180%

No smog when I visited Singapore

Plumpie if I lived in London proper I wouldn't have a car either. Tube is great I wish it was as good in Manchester!

d I actually think it should be mandatory for women with children to drive

Erm why?

Jeanclaud many of the people I see I walking and often walk to town to visit from outlying villages. I’m talking about over 3 miles and often 5 miles one way..

Sorry plumpie, thought it was you who said that! Just reread your post!

No smog when I visited Singapore

depends on what is being burnt in Indonesia, and which way the wind is blowing.....

it only happens a few times a year but when it is bad, it is very very bad, and deadly, but it isn't the same as the pollution we are talking about in the UK, which comes from traffic.