To be annoyed at DS being excluded from Summer club?

[ThatsSoFetch]

I booked DS age 9 into a summer football club - the type that the flyers are put in their bags every school holidays. Paid for the entire summer 2 days a week. Ive just had to collect DS from his 4th session there - he has been excluded for the remainder of his sessions.

They say he pushed another child.

Ive spoken to DS and he says the other child has been continuously bullying him all day and little was done about it all - indeed the pushing incident happened when they apparently all collectively went to the toilet together and DS was lined up by staff next to the child who continued to call him, in front of staff who did absolutely nothing but say to stop name calling - not separated them whatsoever, kept them stood next to each other.

DS has become so frustrated at it - over 3 hours of bullying - that he pushed the child who then pushed him back.

DS has been excluded for apparently being violent in pushing the child. Apparently the other child has been excluded too - for bullying and also being violent.

Ive spoken to DS who is absolutely beside himself. He knows what he did was wrong but said to me he had reached the end of his limit and that nobody was helping him, despite him repeatedly telling the adults.

Im absolutely furious at the staffs mismanagement of the entire situation.

Ive called and spoken to the manager who said that their policy is not to separate children who have/are falling out but that they exclude instantly for any BULLYING or violent behaviour. They couldnt answer why they didnt exclude the child when he was bullying before it reached a point where DS just couldnt take any more.

I wont in any way try to justify what DS did - he did wrong - but what I dont get is why I receive a phonecall asking me to collect him moments after he pushed the child, yet the child was permitted to bully my child for over 3 hours.

AIBU in my view of how they handled the situation?

I feel sorry for your DS. That awful feeling of not being helped can be terrifying. I know the sort of camps you’re talking about and some of them are not great at handling this sort of thing. There are loads of good ones around though so hopefully you can find one where your son feels haply and safe!!

Ps I’m assuming he doesn’t have any anger issues / this is a one off as far as you know!

I think I would ask the club what they would have expected ds to do in the situation that wouldn't have led to exclusion. If he told them, was the other child told to leave him alone or was the situation ignored? How long should ds's time have been ruined until something was said to the other child? All week? And was the other child only excluded as well because he pushed him back?

This is utterly rubbish care for your child. They didn't exercise their duty of care by stopping the bully from tormenting him. I cannot see an adult enduring 3 hours of torment without retaliating in some way or other.

I'm so sorry your son has had to leave the club. It is devastating to be told that you MUST endure bullying with no hope of rescue by the adults present. As someone above says - the feeling of hopelessness at having to deal with this alone. The adults KNOW but are not helping you. Terrible :(

@HipHopTheHippieToTheHipHipHop

Why should the other children have their fun interrupted because the staff are spending time handling troublemakers?

Behave or find somewhere else to play football

Seriously??? Her son was NOT the troublemaker! They knew this.
They did NOTHING to help him and then expelled him when he helped himself.

Hope you're as strident when your children find themselves in Lord Of The Flies Summer Camp and the adults let your children be tormented relentlessly until they flip.

Can certainly see your point OP. We had problems with my son at his new senior school last year with repeated bullying which caused him immense psychological damage and was not dealt with adequately by the school (he has since changed school and is much happier and we are going through the complaints procedure).

For those saying that it is not bullying and that physical abuse is worse is totally wrong.

A new study released last week in JAMA Psychiatry suggests that emotional abuse is just as damaging as violent abuse when it comes to mental and behavioural health.

Name calling is the start of bullying behaviour and is emotional abuse.

I would personally also ask for details of the clubs designated safeguarding lead or health and safety officer and ensure that you notify them of your concerns about the staff’s lack of action as lack of action in respect of bullying is directly related to safety.

Thanks YouDancin! Couldn't agree more!

For clarification - it was stated by the manager that my son didn't start continue any name calling. The other child continued and escalated it.

It was for 3 hours plus - DS said the child started it very soon after arriving and I collected DS over 3 hours later. This was also confirmed by the manager.

For anyone stating 'you have your money back what is the problem' - well quite frankly if I have paid for someone to care for my child in any capacity, I expect just that. Them to care for them in every sense of the word. Including their mental wellbeing and not allow them to be tormented for hours on end without taking any actions to prevent this situation happening.

I won't condone my son's eventual actions but quite frankly I don't blame him - ask yourself this - if any of you were being mentally abused with words alone would you sit there and take it? Imagine being 9 years old any nobody stepping in to help you and even worse you can't get away, you can't run away or hide and you have been forced to spend the day right next to someone who is continually verbally abusing you.

As a single parent organising care during holidays is hard. But then to have to deal with things like this is harder. I choose my son's wellbeing over any holiday club any second of the day. But really - this situation should never have happened.

A “zero tolerance” policy never works - the only thing that will manage behaviour is showing very clearly what the limits are and holding the children to that standard. Starting with small interventions and clear explanations.

Throwing a 9 year old off a whole summer football course is ridiculous. First of all they should manage the kids better so this kind of thing is avoided. But if a push happens they should have sat him out for an hour and explained to him that that is now how we react when we’re annoyed, either as football players or as people, then resolved the issue between them. Then got on with the football and kept an eye on them.

At school I would have given a lunchtime detention for a push, to secondary aged kids. They’re only learning how to manage themselves.

And trust me I’m no soft option.

Hi OP - I'm going to go against the grain here and say that actually I think I'd be proud of my DS for standing up for himself. It's awful the adults in charge didn't step in (not separating kids insulting each other/misbehaving is fucking barmy) and as someone who was at
One time horrifically bullied - well, frankly some kids only understand a good shove or punch.

It's really hard because I don't believe violence is ok, I really don't - in your situation I would tell my son that in a future similar situation he could demand to call me - but he clearly tried his best to do the right thing.

Am sorry this has happened, it's really unfair.

I own/ run kids sports holiday club with my partner.. if this happened with us we wouldn’t exclude we’d sit them down (separately) in the first instance to calm and reflect, then we’d get them together to discuss issues/ apologies/ set ground rules and then let them crack on with a warning of no more bother or else... then would discuss with both parents at pick up... for parents to be fully aware of the full story and to have a chat with their child....basically conflict resolution.... however fortunately we’re also experienced teachers... while many of these said type clubs use sports coaches or even teenagers who just don’t have the skills.
A learning curve for your son, shouldn’t have been excluded but next time You’ll choose your activity club more carefully 😀

Please don't be mad with your child for retaliating, he pushed him, not the end of the world. If someone was calling me names repeatedly for 3 hours they'd be receiving more than just a push. He did well to just push the other child.
It's ok to teach your children to stick up for themselves. My ds is 4, he will always be taught to never instigate anything but if anybody touches him in a way he feels threatened, he will not be in trouble for retaliating. I was bullied horrendously at school, I wish I was as confident as I am now. Bullies only understand one language and that is giving them back what they dish out, which is unfortunate but true. I feel like we are bringing up a generation of victims because we tell them they aren't allowed to defend themselves!! Basically saying that its ok for people to call you names and you aren't allowed to retaliate. I didn't defend myself ever and it was just relentless, my son will not go through the same as me. Some people may not agree with me, and that's fine as we all parent as we want, but children kill themselves nowadays over bullying, let's not forget that, it's time to get tough on the bullies.
P.s the way they handled it was despicable, knowing a child was being name called for 3 hours, have they got a facebook page etc you can leave a bad review, you can let the others parents know how they are running their club. Wouldn't want my child going there.

Rn1986 - As far as I'm concerned I've handled it really well with DS. Tried to be diplomatic and explain both sides, right and wrong etc because my concern was that next time anyone who days a wrong word to him will get some form of violent behaviour - and I know my son. He isn't violent. This is a little boy who snuggles up next to his little sister in mummys bed.

But bullying and name calling is something that affected me greatly during my time growing up. I was fine at primary school - no issues whatsoever and a very happy childhood but secondary school was a living nightmare day after day. I didn't fit in - I was particularly overweight and didn't lose the weight until I was 17 - and that was after my very first boyfriend calling me fat when we split up. Yes as tragic as that soubds! I went from a size 16/18 to a very skinny size 6/8 within a few months - now a very healthy size 10. But because of what was going on at school, I comfort ate, I still have eating issues as a result of It all - on a day where I'm stressed or upset my eating can either go from absolutely nothing at all to eating 3 big Macs in a row, one extreme to another. It was truly horrific so I'm fully aware of what effect words can have on a person of any age.

I don't tolerate bullying and when I was childminding I did just as another previous comment says about separating but working with the children to sort a situation together and collectively - children won't magically get on if you just bumpf them together - and I was constantly praised by parents for how well I looked after their children and looked out for their wellbeing.

As a mother, I feel particularly bad that as a result of my poor choice of summer club for DS that he has had to learn a hard and fast lesson without being the initial cause of the issue. He's still upset about it now. He's at his Dads this evening and called me from his Dads asking if he could come home to me - because lastnight I hugged him just a little bit tighter. Difficult as it is I've had to insist he stays at dad's as he doesn't see him as often as me but we have a choccy and film night planned for tomorrow night!

I am going to leave a review on their page - I'll be honest but politely word it because no matter how badly I feel they have acted (and I consider them to be worse than the child who caused the incident), I will not stoop to their level. Their method of brushing aside (excluding) problems isn't the way things are done in the real world - blimey their rug must be really struggling to hide all their crap!

Ahhhhhh OP, you sound fab.
You can’t blame yourself for choosing that summer club.

Sounds like the staff could be more professional. It's their responsibility to look after the kids as well as teach sport. In fact that is part of it, working as a team/learning to get along. Basically they enabled one child to behave badly at another's cost for a number of hours, even though they were given the opportunity to sort it!

Yes, you could say he has learned that physical retaliation is wrong, but he has also learned that the people who should have stepped in didn't.

Throwing a 9 year old off a whole summer football course is ridiculous. First of all they should manage the kids better so this kind of thing is avoided. But if a push happens they should have sat him out for an hour and explained to him that that is now how we react when we’re annoyed, either as football players or as people, then resolved the issue between them. Then got on with the football and kept an eye on them.

This ^

Cauliflower has it spot on. Separate and ward - and keep an eye on them, just in case the aggressor starts with another child.

*warn, not ward

Your son is only 9, how much tolerance to bullying is he expected to have. 3 hours of torment and no one taking any action to sort it out is an awful situation for a child to be in especially one your D'S was eager to take part in. I would definitely be asking why this lack of interest of occurred . Is the holiday club part of any association e.g. football? If so would contact to express concern. At least you have been given a refund.

Freckles you clearly have never heard of/been on the receiving end of mental abuse...words are just words SMFH

I'm sorry for your son's being so upset, though because we've heard only one side of the story I can't address the right/wrong of the punishment itself, but maybe you could clear up something that's confusing me: It was for 3 hours plus - DS said the child started it very soon after arriving and I collected DS over 3 hours later. This was also confirmed by the manager. Does this mean that the manager was aware of 3 hours of bullying and stood idly by all that time? or that member(s) of the staff told the manager that they'd watched this going on for 3 hours without stopping it? or that the manager said something like a polite noncommittal 'indeed' or 'yes' or 'I see' when you said it had gone on all morning and you took that as confirmation? If the manager actually told you that someone in authority was aware of hours of relentless bullying and did nothing that's a rather grave matter.

This sounds awful OP. Why are some people here are sticking up for the bully? Would you put up with it if either yourself or your child were in a place you couldnt get away from, with someone picking on you for hours? You need to head over to the Work issues board, its full of adults complaining about workplace bullying, some go off sick with stress due to it. So, if an adult cannot deal with it face to face and end up asking HR for support, what makes you think a child can deal with it, after reporting it?!

Fair play to your son for sticking up for himself

There are many different ways of interpreting this behaviour between the boys.
Name calling: is it bullying?
Pushing: is it violence?
Many parents would say that their child is not a bully, not violent, a good boy/girl. However, in my many years of experience as a primary school teacher, I've seen most children doing both of these things to different degrees. How a child behaves is all about them making relationships in different situations. Child development is a very complex thing. Children also often behave very differently away from their parents. In a sports club, it is by nature a much less 'controlled' environment than a classroom. Children attend for a specific purpose. They have to make new friendships very quickly and for some this can mean asserting themselves so they are perceived as top dog. Name calling is a classic way of doing this.
If a child came to me and told me someone was calling them, my initial advice would be to ignore the name caller, walk away, and I would, watch the situation, making sure the other child knew I was watching. However, just by the mere act of a child telling an adult about being called names, that gives more power to the caller. They see that the other child is upset by the names, they have got the response they were after. Children have to be taught how to manage these situations themselves in order to take the power away from the name callers. All too often, the way they do manage is to resort to physical retaliation which then escalates the situation. The name caller has won the battle as most children know that a physical action trumps a verbal action in the bad behaviour stakes.
Children who exude confidence, who walk away from others that try to annoy them, deal with such behaviour better. They don't take it personally, don't retaliate, don't allow it to spoil their day. Subsequently the other child then moves on. We should teach our children to stand up for themselves by being confident, and to support other more vulnerable children.
Whether we call it bullying or violence, it's an age old thing and will never go away.

Tbh I think most kids would do the same after three hours. Ds is younger but we have similar snidey kids in ds’ class and tbh I think they only seem to back off when you put them in their place.
After three hours of watching it just seems to me that these people shouldn’t run an ant farm let alone a holiday club.

The holiday club my daughter goes to is run at her school by an outside company. The owner/manager is great but the other staff all appear to be teenagers of 18/19 to me. My DD hasn’t had any problems but I wonder how the staff would manage if there had been. In your review I would emphasise that the staff are not equipped to manage behavioural issues / disputes as that appears to be the case. As an aside I would actually be OK if she had pushed someone in the circumstances that you described ( although that’s not the message I would relay to her).It shows he’s got some mettle and you can work with that. I would try and teach him some phrases that he could use to try and deflect any crappy comments. It’s about not looking bothered even if you are. That being said Its easy to sit and say “ violence is never the answer” but actually sometimes it just is. Next lesson - don’t do it in front of the staff member!! Sorry he’s had his football camp ruined.

We should teach our children to stand up for themselves by being confident - of course. But at 9 they have a limited repertoire of ways to manage others and should be able to get help easily in this situation. Some kids will only listen to adults telling them to stop.

But at 9 they have a limited repertoire of ways to manage others and should be able to get help easily in this situation. Some kids will only listen to adults telling them to stop

Agreed - which is where good staff are essential. I wonder what the staff “ training” of these play schemes consists of? What written policy they have about discipline and escalation? It’s not enough to be good at sport or dance etc you’ve actually got to have some chops to be able to sort out discipline issues as they arise. Saying we have “ zero tolerance” is just a cop out in this instance since they clearly weren’t equipped to manage the problems before it escalated.