To think people should think before they get on a plane

[AndSpinAround]

Yeah yeah I know some people are scared of flying, but right now I have no sympathy.

Yesterday DH was on a 7pm flight from London to Barcelona. We live in the outskirts of Barcelona.

Everyone got on the flight then one woman decided she didn't want to fly after all. She got off the plane. This means that everyones hand baggage has to be rechecked. Then just as they are about to go. Another woman decides she is scared and wants her and her family off the plane. The second woman had hold baggage so that had to be taken off, then all hand baggage checked again. Because of this the runway slot had been missed so they had to wait again.
The plane landed after midnight.

The last train for DH to get home leave Barcelona centre at 11.55. The flight was due to get in at 10.20, no problem. Because of these two he had to get a taxi to another part of Barcelona, then a night bus. He got home just after 2.30am.

He's knackered and can't work today.

These two woman should have thought before they got on the fucking plane.

And how do you know the woman in question hasn’t completed a course? I doubt the success rate is 100%

Exactly, porkflute. I doubt very much she woke up that morning and thought "I'm going to get on a plane and get off again because I'm an entitled bitch whose needs trump those of everyone else around me".

Panic and anxiety can be absolutely overwhelming and is often unpredictable. Until she was in the grip of an enormous irrational sense of terror, she, given that she went through check in and boarding etc, presumably thought that this would not happen, given that all of her actions up to that point show her as being someone who wanted to and was prepared to fly.

Actually, one thing common across all types of treatment for anxiety and panic is to encourage people not to engage in avoidant behaviour. This is because it is not the situation that is intrinsically problematic but the sufferer's response to it.

By avoiding the situation the anxiety becomes more entrenched and also leads to a kind of self fulfilling narrowing of scope - ie the person thinks "I am feeling safe because I avoided this situation, therefore the situation is the problem and the way to deal with it is to stay away". And gradually, insidiously, this begins to apply to other situations also, all backed up by the voice telling the sufferer that the only reason they are safe is because they have avoided things.

Well the woman’s either didn’t know or thought she’d had conquered her fear otherwise she wouldn’t be on the plane would she.
Do you honestly think she got on the plane to have a panic attack for shits and giggles?

@PorkFlurte - you asked about overcoming a fear of flying. I merely suggested that courses specifically designed and proven for many thousands of people to overcome the fear of flying are a better idea than just trying a DIY version on a commercial flight. Do you really think the latter is more suitable?

(Your hypothetical person may have taken such a course, I don't know.)

( @PorkFlute, apologies for typo.)

@Bombardier25966

"Someone having an epileptic fit is far more likely to need a diversion than someone having an anxiety attack."

I wonder if this is a fact you're about to back up or simply nonsense.

Anxiety seems to be a fairly new thing so I doubt there are reputable studies.

I have a friend with a severe fear of flying. They will not get on a plane full stop. Drive (even if it takes a long time), or if going to the UK, drive then ferry. You don't have to fly, people do it because it's quicker.

This. My BIL suffers from a fear of flying (some men do suffer from anxiety), so it means that my DSis can't take her DC to visit our relatives in Canada or Australia. If you can't cope with travelling by plane then there are things you and your family miss out on, unless they go without you.

I think the issue isn't about lack of sympathy for MH issues, but allowing your anxiety to inconvenience other passengers. The OP has mentioned a man missing his nan's funeral, she's not just talking about her and her DH's own inconvenience.

Yes I think a course would be a good idea. But as we don’t know whether the woman in question has taken one I’m not sure how it’s relevant to whether she was selfish to board the plane which is the point a lot of people are taking exception to.

People who have epileptic fits, blackouts or seizures are not supposed to drive. Some still do, knowing that they can lose consciousness, and kill people, like that bin lorry driver in Glasgow who killed 6 people.

So for example, it starts out with a fear of flying. Ok, you think, to stay safe I'll just never fly. I don't need to all that much anyway. And straight away that's your scope narrowed, because it means that there are many places you and your family will not go to. But that's ok, because you're safe.

Then gradually - because anxiety doesn't actually go away when you avoid situations, because the problem is your response, not the situation (unless you're in a war zone etc ofc) - it starts to creep into other areas of your life.

The feeling you get when you think about flying starts to come over you when you're driving. Ok, you think, I just won't drive any more. And again your life is narrowed - you go to fewer places, you plan your life around the thing you're avoiding. And it makes you feel safe.

By now you are strongly associating feeling safe with avoiding situations. You think you can keep a lid on your feelings if you just a avoiding this, or that, and everything else is fine. Then one day you're in a shop and a feeling of blind panic comes over you - because, remember, you haven't actually dealt with your anxiety at all, so it will keep cropping up. And now shops are off limits.

And so it goes on. I think you can imagine the rest. It's not just as simple as saying "don't fly then".

As far as I was aware people with controlled epilepsy are allowed to drive.

Was there a problem with the left falange?

People who have epileptic fits, blackouts or seizures are not supposed to drive.
This isn’t true. If your epilepsy is controlled (ie you haven’t had a seizure for a certain amount of time) you can drive.

www.gov.uk/epilepsy-and-driving

TBH I think a lot of people are getting righteously offended over hypothetical situations and extrapolations.

OP was pissed off, her husband was pissed off because of shitty delays. That is fair enough - and people who say they would be totally fine with any delay or hassle like that are either lying, or fine in a Ross from Friends way, because it isn't wrong or evil to be annoyed by things going tits up in travel.

Had it been someone being taken off because they were actually Jason Bourne on the run, there would still have been an incredibly annoying delay. Would we now all be told to feel sorry for international spies just trying to go about their business?

Maybe she worded her title badly but I didn't get the feeling from her posts on the thread that either of them intrinsically hated all people with MH conditions because of their MH conditions. They just hated the ensuing delay and hassle. Just because she wasn't being all right on and uber-MNy cool about it doesn't make her a witch.

Just to add, it was a man who had a full blown panic attack on a plane I was once on.

If the flight misses it's take off slot, the airline is fined several thousands of pounds per MINUTE that the aircraft is still on the ground of the airport. So trust me, the airline are a HELL of a lot more put out than your husband!!

(Used to work in Aviation)

With regards to the luggage, the airline by law has to remove any checked baggage if someone gets off the flight. Ever since the Lockerbie bomb (in a checked suitcase), the law prevents any checked baggage from flying without the owner being on the flight

We definitely shouldn't let pregnant women fly ever, they could go in to early labour. Or faint.

That would be extremely selfish of them 😂

Ooh we should have physical and mental agility tests before you board the plane!

Set up and assault course at the begining of the queue and then have quick fire questions before you board.

Well it would be interesting to see some statistics wouldnt it? How frequently do these sort of disruptions occur and why? Pregnant women cannot fly after 36 weeks precisely because of the risk of labour. It might turn out that anxiety is hardly ever the cause of delays, compared to drunkeness or other health conditions. It may be a significant cause.

I wonder if this is a fact you're about to back up or simply nonsense.

It's common sense. An epileptic fit is a medical emergency and requires specialist medical attention, an anxiety attack whilst very debilitating is not. An epileptic fit is going to result in far more diversions than an anxiety attack.

I notice a reluctance for those talking about other conditions to state whether they think they should be allowed to fly or not. Is that because it's ok to denigrate those with mental health conditions, but not those with physical conditions, or children with special needs?