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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What do you think happens when we die?

555 replies

Frosty6611 · 05/08/2018 12:28

Just had this discussion with my DP and mum and we all had a completely different answers.

I believe in reincarnation.

My DP is an atheist and believes nothing happens.

My mum believes in heaven/hell.

OP posts:
DieAntword · 08/08/2018 23:21

What do all the Christians here think about us becoming a secular society?

I prefer pluralism to secularism but my denomination is not popular in this country so there’s no particular reason for me to oppose disestablishment.

Cobblersandhogwash · 08/08/2018 23:33

I think that's it. You're gone. There's nothing.

I am shocked by this though I believe it.

My sil died recently. I expected to feel something in her house. I expected a sense of her. There is nothing. She's truly gone. And that is what is so very hard for my brother and her children.

I am starting to think stories about the dead were only made to comfort the living. The reality is so stark and harsh.

Bumbledumb · 08/08/2018 23:38

I refuse to accept the idea that our consciousness is independent of our brains. Disease, damage or chemical changes can change our personalities, and mental health problems can be addressed with the use of appropriate drugs.

Also when we die, which of our "selves" would actually go to Heaven? Would it be the angst-ridden teenage self, the optimistic young adult, the grumpy older version, or the loud drunk version? If we die after suffering years of dementia, does our mind revert to a period when it was still capable of rational thought?

The idea that we can leave this world with our thoughts intact and separate from our physical bodies makes no sense to me.

lazyhazysummer · 08/08/2018 23:53

Cobblers but surely you can't base everything on that one thing. Isn't there other things in the whole big picture? Loads of people don't feel anything, but loads do. I've never really experienced anything either, but i don't discount what other people have to say.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 09/08/2018 00:07

Bumbledumb You get to choose which version of you enters heaven. Its like a game, you get to pick which Avatar you want to represent you.

God wants you to have a good time in heaven, so of course he will let you select your best attributes. After all you will be stuck there for eternity. So make some good selections.

RainySeptember · 09/08/2018 00:42

Is that what your church teaches walking or something you have decided for yourself?

Vitalogy · 09/08/2018 05:36

walking is just taking the piss because that's all she's got.

Vitalogy · 09/08/2018 05:48

I don't think anyone has suggested any explanation for those aspects of human experience I mentioned up thread - why do we see beauty in nature, or in music for example? Exactly. I'm with you on that one.

Bumbledumb · 09/08/2018 07:42

why do we see beauty in nature, or in music for example?

Because these things trigger a chemical response in our brains which gives us pleasure. Dead people do not see beauty in nature.

For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name is forgotten.

Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 9

RainySeptember · 09/08/2018 08:47

"why do we see beauty in nature, or in music for example?"

Yo me it's a visceral response, like disgust or horror.

In evolutionary terms maybe linked to curiosity, or a need to acquire and improve.

There'll be a bit of your brain that lights up with activity when you see or hear something appealing, probably the same bit that lights up when you see something you want, or something that gives you comfort.

lazyhazysummer · 09/08/2018 12:31

It's like atheists have to rack their brains to think up explanations rather than concede to anything. We can't prove there's a God, but by the same token you can't prove that everything we are is because of a natural evolution process. Half the explanations given will never have been thought of before but just thought up quickly to win the argument.
Tbh it is a bit desperate.

DieAntword · 09/08/2018 12:36

But why do we find stuff like music or a sunset or misty hills appealing? Just an accidental side effect of something else?

For that matter why do so many people, believers and non believers express something akin to a longing for God or spiritual connection or something of that nature? Why would we evolve a longing for something we cannot fulfil on account of there being nothing to fulfil it? You’d think it would be selected against since inability to fulfil fundamental longings leads to depression and learned helplessness in the face of the wider environment.

annandale · 09/08/2018 13:29

I don't have to rack my brain to think that it would be reasonable for mammals to prefer light to darkness or to find patterns better than random sequences. There is quite a lot of music of cultures unfamiliar to me which I don't find intrinsically beautiful (interesting but not beautiful) which would suggest that most of the beauty we perceive in music is acquired associations and familiarity.

garbagegirl · 09/08/2018 13:43

Pretty much this.

What do you think happens when we die?
lazyhazysummer · 09/08/2018 13:46

Sorry annandale your argument doesn't convince me. That we find beauty in anything regardless of what type of music, art, poetry etc, where it can reduce us to tears doesn't seem something that evolution would require. The depths of human emotion are immense, far more than we would require to survive. I could go on all day but I'd bore you. But I think we take far too much for granted.

lazyhazysummer · 09/08/2018 14:13

The Creation
And God stepped out on space,
And he looked around and said:
I'm lonely—
I'll make me a world.

And far as the eye of God could see
Darkness covered everything,
Blacker than a hundred midnights
Down in a cypress swamp.

Then God smiled,
And the light broke,
And the darkness rolled up on one side,
And the light stood shining on the other,
And God said: That's good!

Then God reached out and took the light in his hands,
And God rolled the light around in his hands
Until he made the sun;
And he set that sun a-blazing in the heavens.
And the light that was left from making the sun
God gathered it up in a shining ball
And flung it against the darkness,
Spangling the night with the moon and stars.
Then down between
The darkness and the light
He hurled the world;
And God said: That's good!

Then God himself stepped down—
And the sun was on his right hand,
And the moon was on his left;
The stars were clustered about his head,
And the earth was under his feet.
And God walked, and where he trod
His footsteps hollowed the valleys out
And bulged the mountains up.

Then he stopped and looked and saw
That the earth was hot and barren.
So God stepped over to the edge of the world
And he spat out the seven seas—
He batted his eyes, and the lightnings flashed—
He clapped his hands, and the thunders rolled—
And the waters above the earth came down,
The cooling waters came down.

Then the green grass sprouted,
And the little red flowers blossomed,
The pine tree pointed his finger to the sky,
And the oak spread out his arms,
The lakes cuddled down in the hollows of the ground,
And the rivers ran down to the sea;
And God smiled again,
And the rainbow appeared,
And curled itself around his shoulder.

Then God raised his arm and he waved his hand
Over the sea and over the land,
And he said: Bring forth! Bring forth!
And quicker than God could drop his hand,
Fishes and fowls
And beasts and birds
Swam the rivers and the seas,
Roamed the forests and the woods,
And split the air with their wings.
And God said: That's good!

Then God walked around,
And God looked around
On all that he had made.
He looked at his sun,
And he looked at his moon,
And he looked at his little stars;
He looked on his world
With all its living things,
And God said: I'm lonely still.

Then God sat down—
On the side of a hill where he could think;
By a deep, wide river he sat down;
With his head in his hands,
God thought and thought,
Till he thought: I'll make me a man!

Up from the bed of the river
God scooped the clay;
And by the bank of the river
He kneeled him down;
And there the great God Almighty
Who lit the sun and fixed it in the sky,
Who flung the stars to the most far corner of the night,
Who rounded the earth in the middle of his hand;
This great God,
Like a mammy bending over her baby,
Kneeled down in the dust
Toiling over a lump of clay
Till he shaped it in is his own image;

Then into it he blew the breath of life,
And man became a living soul.
Amen. Amen.

RainySeptember · 09/08/2018 16:29

"It's like atheists have to rack their brains to think up explanations rather than concede to anything."

On balance I think I'd rather be someone thinking of explanations than someone who isn't.

You are at liberty to look at any given thing and attribute it to god, and atheists are similarly at liberty to wonder why it has evolved that way.

And to be fair, it's a rare day that you see a believer conceding anything to an atheist either.

Bibesia · 09/08/2018 17:00

You’d think it would be selected against since inability to fulfil fundamental longings leads to depression and learned helplessness in the face of the wider environment.

No, because the nature of faith is that people believe their fundamental longings will be realised on their deaths, so they don't expect any of those longings to be fulfilled during their lives. The appeal of it all is the fact that they cannot lose - if they're right, fine, if they're not, they'll never know about it.

Bibesia · 09/08/2018 17:06

lazyhazy, your romanticised account of the creation left out the bit where this lonely but immensely powerful God made a man, but chose to make an imperfect being that was subject to all sorts of genetic problems, and susceptible to infections, uncontrollable growths and cancers and the like; and chose to expose his creation to massive dangers because the world he created was also imperfect and subject to earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, floods, droughts, hurricanes, tornados, and various other disasters.

Vitalogy · 09/08/2018 17:08

is that people believe their fundamental longings will be realised on their deaths, so they don't expect any of those longings to be fulfilled during their lives. I disagree with this, the longing can be fulfilled in the here and now.

annandale · 09/08/2018 17:12

Do I feel a longing? I'm not aware of it - what's it feel like? I feel loss since my husband took his own life, and sometimes feel very low and a wish for oblivion, and a wish for things to be better in society and a deep sense of responsibility for ds, but I'm not aware of any spiritual longing.

Vitalogy · 09/08/2018 17:20

Do I feel a longing? I'm not aware of it - what's it feel like? Unsettled, searching, something's missing, no deep down contentment.

Sorry for your loss.

annandale · 09/08/2018 18:17

Never felt something was missing. I know I'm very lucky though with a secure childhood.

Ibelieveinkarma · 09/08/2018 18:23

lazyhazy

You seem to like to 'preach' to all the non believers. Fair enough, we get it that YOU believe in God, but you should respect that many others do not
Yes, 'non' believers have no proof that when we die that's it. But YOU also have no proof that there's a God and an afterlife.

Janni01 · 09/08/2018 18:34

Why does someone keep posting religious passages over and over again.