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Original poster

What do you think happens when we die?

555 replies

Frosty6611 · 05/08/2018 12:28

Just had this discussion with my DP and mum and we all had a completely different answers.

I believe in reincarnation.

My DP is an atheist and believes nothing happens.

My mum believes in heaven/hell.

OP posts:
DieAntword · 08/08/2018 15:49

And Gold being unreactive is representative of purity.

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 15:50

Why has the church accumulated all these riches, where has it all come from. And why have they spent their time and effort pursuing it. Haven't there been more pressing matters at hand.

Trinity66 · 08/08/2018 15:51

Nothing most likely. Our brain is what makes us us and that and everything else disappears. I don't believe in invisible souls.

WhatisFreddoingnow · 08/08/2018 15:55

Also, many documents have been digitalised from the Vatican Library. It is also fairly easy to access the library.

The Vatican Archives are slightly trickier in that a letter from your academic organisation is needed stating your historical area and it is for people studying above Bachelor Degree level.

Ultimately I don’t know why the access levels to the libraries is such a damning factor.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 15:57

Why has the church accumulated all these riches, where has it all come from. And why have they spent their time and effort pursuing it. Haven't there been more pressing matters at hand.

Speaking for my small 'c' church, parishioners bought them or the church committee with the church's money. We need a chalice for communion, but they buy the nicest chalice they can afford for the church because it will house God himself and they want to give him the best. We need a cross (it's part of the service that at the end the priest holds a cross for everyone to go up and kiss - and there must also be a cross on the altar) and again, people want to get the best cross, they want to give him the best of themselves - some of the people at our church have a fair bit of money and they know how bad it would be to give themselves nice houses and cars and then give God shoddy ones. That goes even further when kings and extremely wealthy people have been the patrons of a church.

It's not "pursued", people give it out of their desire to give to God. Maybe it would be better for them to give up all their possessions - that was what Christ said to the rich man, but only after he sought to do more than what was initially asked. There's a place for those of us who are not ready - and maybe never will be - to take a vow of poverty.

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 15:58

Surely everything in creation does in various ways. I'd rather look a natures beauty than a shiny lump of metal, I'm not a magpie. Smile

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 16:03

I'd rather look a natures beauty than a shiny lump of metal, I'm not a magpie. smile

You do accept that other people like looking at different things to you and get different things out of it and that's ok right?

WhatisFreddoingnow · 08/08/2018 16:06

The Church has been around for over 2000 years. It is natural that it would accumulate. The vast majority of wealth is in its property portfolio e.g churches, schools, hospital. Many of the artworks have been donated over the years. Most of the items held by the Vatican are deeply significant in not just Catholicism but also historically. To get rid of these items to (as I pointed out earlier) to not even make a slight dent in the poverty levels would be takin away from the experiences of future generations. Should only the wealthy enjoy beautiful things?

If Governments have all their money to helping, poverty would be wiped out immediately.

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 16:16

I don't think the cross Jesus died on was gold platted.

Did you ever see the Indiana Jones film, the holy grail scene, it makes a good point.

The Vatican Archives are slightly trickier in that a letter from your academic organisation is needed stating your historical area and it is for people studying above Bachelor Degree level. That excludes so many to start with. Then only allowing one subject matter at a time by all accounts. Then having to re apply for each separate subject again and so on.

Ultimately I don’t know why the access levels to the libraries is such a damning factor. Really.

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 16:21

I can't believe people are actually trying to justify the church and it's treasures. Dear me.

politicalcorrectnessisgreat · 08/08/2018 16:22

Perhaps I just don't see any beauty in the gold and you do. I'd rather look at a waterfall or some flowers, mountains, a lake etc.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 16:28

I don't think the cross Jesus died on was gold platted.

No but the temple He told the Jews to build for him had many golden objects in it.

Perhaps I just don't see any beauty in the gold and you do. I'd rather look at a waterfall or some flowers, mountains, a lake etc.

So do so, what's that got to do with telling people their aesthetic and representational appreciation of other materials is wrong?

WhatisFreddoingnow · 08/08/2018 16:30

Why is that a problem? I don’t know if that would be the case but can’t see why it is an issue. As mentioned, the libraries are very much open and the process for digitalising information has begun.

It’s not about justifying. It’s about explaining why this is acceptable to Catholics. From my perspective, there is nothing to justify.

I feel that maybe you are cherry-picking reasons to dislike/distrust the Catholic Church. You have yet to respond to the charitable aspect aforementioned but quick to lead back to ‘yes, but there are treasures’ aspect.

I’m no theologian but have given it a good shot! There are plenty of resources online or priests are very happy to meet for a discussion. Online-wise, I recommend Bishop Barron ‘Word on Fire’, Father Mike Schmitz podcasts and Catholic Answers.

Peace be with you x

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 16:32

I can't believe people are actually trying to justify the church and it's treasures. Dear me.

You've obviously not looked far then, defences of it are about as commonly made as the criticism is issued

politicalcorrectnessisgreat · 08/08/2018 16:33

So do so, what's that got to do with telling people their aesthetic and representational appreciation of other materials is wrong?

It is what it represents- wealth =power.
The Catholic Church has massive investments in banking, steel, chemicals etc. It is the richest organisation in the world and displays of wealth don't sit well with me, I also don't think that Jesus was into it either, he told people to give up their things and follow him from what I remember.

It is distasteful. The pope sitting in his silly golden hat for goodness sake.

politicalcorrectnessisgreat · 08/08/2018 16:34

Of course they can do great charity work, they are hugely rich and powerful

politicalcorrectnessisgreat · 08/08/2018 16:38

For example

What do you think happens when we die?
What do you think happens when we die?
DieAntword · 08/08/2018 16:41

The Catholic Church has massive investments in banking, steel, chemicals etc. It is the richest organisation in the world and displays of wealth don't sit well with me, I also don't think that Jesus was into it either, he told people to give up their things and follow him from what I remember.

The church isn't a person. And a large amount of that "wealth" is very illiquid.

Also, again not a catholic, why would a catholic not want the church to be powerful? If they believe it to be an institution founded by God to act in the best interests of mankind?

The pope sitting in his silly golden hat for goodness sake.

This just seems like mocking another culture to me. Of course it's traditional in (now post-)Protestant Britain to mock catholic ostentation so perhaps I shouldn't be so judgemental of your culture.

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 16:45

I was talking about you and other posters defending it. Of course there are people in the wider world for and against it also.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 16:48

Why would me and other posters be likely to represent a narrower range of views than the wider world?

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 16:54

*Why would me and other posters be likely to represent a narrower range of views than the wider world? I've not said you represent a narrow view, unless this wasn't directed at me.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 16:55

I meant why would it be incredible ("I can't believe...") to encounter that view here.

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 16:58

Peace be with you x Peace be with you too.

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 17:01

I meant why would it be incredible ("I can't believe...") to encounter that view here. Looks like the discussion has come to the end of the road on this one. Best wishes.

Gottagetmoving · 08/08/2018 17:09

The universe is vast. We are miniscule.
We just cease to be when we are dead. Just as we didn't exist before birth, we no longer exist after death.