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Original poster

What do you think happens when we die?

555 replies

Frosty6611 · 05/08/2018 12:28

Just had this discussion with my DP and mum and we all had a completely different answers.

I believe in reincarnation.

My DP is an atheist and believes nothing happens.

My mum believes in heaven/hell.

OP posts:
DieAntword · 08/08/2018 14:04

If you want something that's not from the perspective of a particular church the wikipedia article on the topic (specifically the section marked 'history') is an ok if limited starting point.

From my own denomination there's lots of stuff if you google around including this] from the Orthodox Church in America, [[https://frted.wordpress.com/2016/11/03/the-living-word-not-literalism/ a series of blog posts on this priest's blog and lots of discussions around on various forums. There's books too but you'd have to buy them and I don't feel confident to recommend of the top of my head.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 14:06

Maybe have a wee think about what can be bought in exchange for gold.

Yeah but then we go back to what does that mean? Someone obviously wants to buy this gold or it would be worthless right and couldn't buy anything. Why should those people get to have all the gold? Why should the poor not be allowed to enjoy the beauty of gold as much as the rich?

RainySeptember · 08/08/2018 14:12

Die, thank you, I'll follow up your recommendations.

I've just been googling myself. There does seem to be lots of evidence that no one ever seriously thought that the universe was created in seven days, though it does look like they thought that a 'day' represented 1000 years.

Interestingly, I've just learnt that Genesis was written in Hebrew so the word used was 'yom'. This has been interpreted to mean days, when actually it means whatever length of time you want. So a yom could be a day, a year, an eternity.

But then He also created light before he created the sun, so that's a bit inconsistent!

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 14:14

The nuns in my school hit us with rulers, do they still go to heaven since this is not seen as good or kind now? The nuns in Ireland did some horrific stuff as did the priests.

I'm pretty sure the catholics are the same as the orthodox on this - heaven and hell is not about what you do or don't do, it's not "follow rules or be punished". It's about who you are. The rules are to help you become not an end in themselves.

It was Christ who said "And if I have prophecy, and I know all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so that I may remove mountains, and I have no love in me, I would be nothing.

And if I should feed everything that I have to the poor, and if I hand over my body to be burned up and I have no love in me, I gain nothing."

It's not what you do that matters (although it does matter) and it's not what you believe either, but what you are - a person full of love.

A person who loves gives to others - but it's the loving not the giving that gets you to heaven.

So in the case of your ruler wielding nun - if she was doing what she did because she cared about her charges and feared for them if they didn't receive discipline as she understood it then she may go to heaven (there's everything else to consider of course) and if she took malicious glee in the pain and suffering of her charges or was simply apathetically following the rules she may well not. It's sadly not as easy as just doing what you're told.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 14:17

Light before the sun is fine, its everywhere. Earth before the sun harder to square. And mankind preceding death in light of evolution... there's a lot that doesn't work on any literalist reading.

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 14:43

Yeah but then we go back to what does that mean? It means the gold will be sold in exchange for food.

Someone obviously wants to buy this gold or it would be worthless right and couldn't buy anything. I'm not sure what this means?

Why should those people get to have all the gold? Why not, it's not my cup of tea but some people value it.

Why should the poor not be allowed to enjoy the beauty of gold as much as the rich? I think they'd rather have a full tummy. How many people around the world can afford to visit the Vatican anyway. Is gold beautiful anyway. They charge to go in the Vatican palace btw.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 14:51

I think they'd rather have a full tummy. How many people around the world can afford to visit the Vatican anyway. Is gold beautiful anyway. They charge to go in the Vatican palace btw.

I've never been to the Vatican, but my small local church has gold and anyone locally can come and see it, so rather than them having to travel to the vatican they could try something closer.

And you think they prefer a full belly but have you asked them all? Man does not live by bread alone and all that.

Why should those people get to have all the gold? Why not, it's not my cup of tea but some people value it.

Some of those people who like gold could never hope to afford it - why should they be deprived of it in churches?

carbuckety · 08/08/2018 14:53

Nothing. My only issue is trying to read enough books before it happens. I honestly don't understand the fuss about dying. You are dead. That's it. Tbh I am quite looking forward to it, though that in itself is a nonsense. For the people left behind it's a different matter of course

WhatisFreddoingnow · 08/08/2018 14:59

How do you know it wouldn’t be? Maybe the Sistine Chapel is a bad example. There are countless statues and art that would run the risk of being scattered and locked away.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 15:03

Maybe the Sistine Chapel is a bad example.

Dunno... "Quarterly profits are down, people just aren't visiting this religious stuff anymore, how about we "tastefully" convert the sistine chapel into luxury flats?"

haverhill · 08/08/2018 15:06

I believe something v similar to ironfloor.

TheSconeOfStone · 08/08/2018 15:07

I would love to have faith but I can’t choose what to believe. It must be a wonderful comfort to think something happens when you die. Being part of a faith community must be great too. Sadly I don’t believe and can’t fake it.

My dad died recently. Nothing special happened. The painkillers did their work and he just stopped breathing and was released from his suffering. All that was left was the love and memories of his close family around his death bed.

This reinforced my lack of belief but was life affirming all the same.

I’m looking forward to an 80’s disco style digital afterlife as portrayed in Black Mirror as previously mentioned. Heaven is a place on Earth.

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 15:10

my small local church has gold I don't understand why a church needs gold

anyone locally can come and see it I just don't get it.

Man does not live by bread alone and all that. I don't think that has anything to do with gold and a pretty crass connection to make.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 08/08/2018 15:11

I’m not really religious but quite spiritual.

I believe that some idea of a soul does go somewhere and you meet your deceased family/friends.

I didn’t used to believe this until various things happened. I find it comforting

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 15:15

There are countless statues and art that would run the risk of being scattered and locked away The vast majority of it is locked away. Their huge library needs to be opened up properly. So much is hidden. People need to ask themselves why this is.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 15:21

I don't understand why a church needs gold I just don't get it.

To reflect the majesty of God, as an offering to him to show our gratitude (I mean ultimately it's the parishioners who bought these things so for them that's what it is), to share the beauty of creation with the people.

All the painted icons (rather than the prints of icons) are painted with gold either in backgrounds or at least in halos. It's standard for icons.

I don't think that has anything to do with gold and a pretty crass connection to make.

I don't mean gold specifically but we need not just food for the stomach but food for the eyes, the imagination and the spirit as well.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 15:23

People need to ask themselves why this is.

I'm not a catholic, and I think you can apply to see anything as a researcher can't you? But I am curious why you think that is? Ancient scrolls once and for all proving that it was all a lie to exploit the people - a sort of "donation of Constantine" writ large?

politicalcorrectnessisgreat · 08/08/2018 15:24

I don't mean gold specifically but we need not just food for the stomach but food for the eyes, the imagination and the spirit as well.*

Still vulgar sorry

politicalcorrectnessisgreat · 08/08/2018 15:25

I don't mean gold specifically but we need not just food for the stomach but food for the eyes, the imagination and the spirit as well.

Still vulgar sorry and missing the point of Christianity IMO

WhatisFreddoingnow · 08/08/2018 15:25

You can actually apply for access to the library as needed as log as you meet certain criteria. Documents before 1930s are all avalaible in that circumstance. Some things are out of necessity (space, restorations, vulnerability to damage)kept safe for future generations.

Do you believe it to be a conspiracy a la Da Vinci Code? Are you just as passionate about what Government/ National museums have locked always?

You do seem fixated on liquidating Vatican assets. As previously mentioned in my first response, the Catholic Church is a huge charitable organisation (a very conservative figure is around £2-4b) and the largest non-governmental provider of education and medical services in the world.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 15:29

Still vulgar sorry and missing the point of Christianity IMO

What is the "point" of Christianity in your opinion and why should your view on it be more relevant to the gold having churches than those own churches views?

politicalcorrectnessisgreat · 08/08/2018 15:32

I'm pretty sure greed and vulgar displays of wealth weren't on Jesus' agenda when he was spreading the word.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 15:33

I'm pretty sure greed and vulgar displays of wealth weren't on Jesus' agenda when he was spreading the word.

How is sharing beautiful things with everyone greedy?

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 15:44

To reflect the majesty of God, as an offering to him to show our gratitude. to share the beauty of creation with the people. I find that quite sad that someone would think that a metal would do this.

You can actually apply for access to the library as needed as log as you meet certain criteria Yes, you can, a ridiculous, long winded and unnecessary criteria, made to be as difficult as possible.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 15:46

I find that quite sad that someone would think that a metal would do this.

Surely everything in creation does in various ways. Metal is shiny which gives it the visual quality of reflecting light, light being one of the most common ways of symbolising the energies of God.