Page 17 | What do you think happens when we die?

Frosty6611 · 2018-08-05T11:28:54+00:00

Just had this discussion with my DP and mum and we all had a completely different answers. I believe in reincarnation. My DP is an atheist and believes nothing happens. My mum believes in heaven/hell.

politicalcorrectnessisgreat · 08/08/2018 13:15

Why are churches full of gold and jewels? Jesus said to give up material things, I think Jesus was probably an alright bloke but the people with the power have really used the church for their own gain and to oppress the people, keep them scared.

SchrodingersMeowth · 08/08/2018 13:15

I don’t know that I believe in God as such but I think we are part of something much bigger that we do not yet understand (more to do with space, time, earth etc rather than religious belief)

Bible camp turned me in to a disbeliever, too much weird shit and people who were arrogant and treated people badly because they were different.

Consciousness is something that isn’t understood and energy can’t just vanish so I have no idea what I believe in.

SchrodingersMeowth · 08/08/2018 13:16

I also don’t believe that it would be limited to humans if there was something after death and I don’t really believe we would be “conscious”.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 13:17

Why are churches full of gold and jewels? Jesus said to give up material things, I think Jesus was probably an alright bloke but the people with the power have really used the church for their own gain and to oppress the people, keep them scared.

Where else should gold and jewels be? In a church everyone can admire the beauty of gold and jewels - if it was all sold (it can only be sold once) to say pay for food for the poor, the food would be eaten and then all the gold and jewels would be in the private house of a rich person to be enjoyed only by him. Everyone deserves access to beauty as well as to food.

irregularegular · 08/08/2018 13:17

For those who don’t believe in any sort of afterlife/God etc, do you think bad things happen to certain people purely because of bad luck? Someone who is brutally murdered at a young age for example - is it just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time for them? And someone else who lives to be 100 and has a fabulous life are just lucky?

Yes of course. What else would you believe? I truly hope you don't believe that those who live to 100 have been deemed more deserving than those who died at a young age?

politicalcorrectnessisgreat · 08/08/2018 13:19

I used to support two people with learning difficulties. A church group told one of them he had the devil in him, they tried to 'remove' it several times over a couple of years. Was great for the poor guys self esteem

politicalcorrectnessisgreat · 08/08/2018 13:21

Where else should gold and jewels be? In a church everyone can admire the beauty of gold and jewels - if it was all sold (it can only be sold once) to say pay for food for the poor, the food would be eaten and then all the gold and jewels would be in the private house of a rich person to be enjoyed only by him. Everyone deserves access to beauty as well as to food.

But Jesus didn't think much of gold and jewels and neither do I. Those people who go to church to look at the jewels and gold seem to have missed the point of what is important

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 13:21

This should mean that he isn't responsible for good things either, but he seems to take the credit. Humans are directing the credit towards god aren't they.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 13:22

I used to support two people with learning difficulties. A church group told one of them he had the devil in him, they tried to 'remove' it several times over a couple of years. Was great for the poor guys self esteem

Was it a pentecostal church? They do stuff like that. They have a very unsophisticated view of sickness and how it relates to the spiritual world. Most denominations would not take such a position.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 13:26

But Jesus didn't think much of gold and jewels and neither do I. Those people who go to church to look at the jewels and gold seem to have missed the point of what is important

What gives you the impression Jesus didn't "think much of gold and jewels"?

I don't go to church to look at the gold but I admire and appreciate it when I am there - it's beautiful. What is wrong with beauty or the appreciation of it? If your taste is different fine - there are plainer churches too that are equally beautiful in their own way - but why scorn the alternative just because it's not to your taste?

I assume you know the story where Judas chastises the woman for anointing Christ with expensive oils instead of selling them and giving the proceeds to the poor?

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 13:30

Why are churches full of gold and jewels? Sickening isn't it. I've visited the palace that is the Vatican, awful.

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 13:31

Where else should gold and jewels be? In a church everyone can admire the beauty of gold and jewels - if it was all sold (it can only be sold once) to say pay for food for the poor, the food would be eaten and then all the gold and jewels would be in the private house of a rich person to be enjoyed only by him. Everyone deserves access to beauty as well as to food. It's the principle behind it and the bad example is shows.

lola212121 · 08/08/2018 13:35

I think our energy holds the key to the answer .

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 13:36

It's the principle behind it and the bad example is shows.

What exactly is wrong with gold and jewels 'in principle'?

Again, what should be done with them? Just dig a big hole and chuck them all in? Or does someone get to enjoy them? In which case what on earth is wrong with everyone getting to enjoy them in a place like a church which is open to all?

WhatisFreddoingnow · 08/08/2018 13:49

Maliali- I would argue that thinking we can explain everything through science and our own logic is a bigger conceit. Catholicism recognises that we don’t know everything.

politicalcorrectnessisgreat

Matthew 26:6-13

Now when Jesus was in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, a woman came up to him with an alabaster jar of costly perfumed oil, and poured it on his head while he was reclining at table. When the disciples saw this, they were indignant and said, "Why this waste? It could have been sold for much, and the money given to the poor." Since Jesus knew this, he said to them, “Why do you make trouble for the woman? She has done a good thing for me. The poor you will always have with you; but you will not always have me. In pouring this perfumed oil upon my body, she did it to prepare me for burial. Amen, I say to you, wherever this gospel is proclaimed in the whole world, what she has done will be spoken of, in memory of her.”

The Catholic Church is actually the largest charitable organisation on the planet by a long amount.

The Vatican also serves as a museum for many of the world’s great treasures. Would you like to see the Sistine Chapel locked away for a private collector? This way, the wider public can experience art that is created for the glorification of God. Why don’t we shut down the British Museum, sell the assets and give the money to the poor?

4.You wouldn’t even be able to put a price on much of the collection as it is precisely priceless because it is owned by the Vatican. Who would be able to buy it?

Even if all assets were sold, it wouldn’t really make too much a dent in helping eliminate poverty either. Maybe a billion of the poorest people would get an extra year wage and that would be extremely optimistic.

Mason Jar

God is everything Good. Every loving action, every kind word, every heroic act. Fundamentally, that is His nature. It flows from Him. All Evil consists of being an absence of good. People work against God to commit evil acts. God PERMITS (never causes) evil. This is because of free will. If He stopped our ability to do evil, He would be breaking our free will. However, he works to bring the good out of evil. We were never promised that we wouldn’t suffer.

In Christian theology, it’s not about putting blame with God. Ultimately, we were the ones to fall and thus bring about a fallen world.

RainySeptember · 08/08/2018 13:50

"But Jesus didn't think much of gold and jewels and neither do I."

Neither do I. My parents took me to St Peter's in Rome as a child and I was appalled by the opulence. So much wealth, unimaginable wealth, enough to save lives surely?

"Was it a pentecostal church? They do stuff like that. They have a very unsophisticated view of sickness and how it relates to the spiritual world."

The way you view the Pentecostal church, as having unsophisticated ideas, is how some people view your church.

How would believers on here feel if they met a Pentacostal or a creationist who was utterly adamant that the Genesis story was true fact. Would you think they were being naive or that actually they might be right? I think you'd think their beliefs were child-like and wonder how anyone could possibly believe them. That's how some people feel about all religion.

Believers keep saying that everyone knows that some of the stories are metaphorical, that the world wasn't really made in seven days and so on. But you only say this now, after science proved you conclusively wrong.

At one time, the church really did believe that and anyone disagreeing was punished for it.

I feel that science will just continue to answer more questions, prove more and more of it to be metaphorical.

Until five hundred years from now someone on mn will be saying 'don't be ridiculous, nobody believes that god created the universe, that's just a metaphor, of course everyone knows it was XYZ, only unsophisticated religions believe otherwise nowadays."

RainySeptember · 08/08/2018 13:51

I read that back and it sounded arsey. I didn't mean it to be. I'm enjoying this debate. I love mn for this, the ability to talk to people honestly. I would never ask these questions in rl.

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 13:53

What exactly is wrong with gold and jewels 'in principle'?

Again, what should be done with them? Just dig a big hole and chuck them all in? Or does someone get to enjoy them? In which case what on earth is wrong with everyone getting to enjoy them in a place like a church which is open to all?

It's gaudy and vulgar to have the likes on display when millions around the world suffer and starve. The very institution that professes what it does and then flaunt it's riches like that. What to do? Melt the precious metals down and feed the hungry would be a good start!

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 13:54

I don't mean unsophisticated as a synonym for primitive or stupid.

And no, prior to the reformation no-one took a literalist view - it's a new view not an old one. Fundamentalism is a response to modernity - the ancients were much more nuanced.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 13:55

It's gaudy and vulgar to have the likes on display when millions around the world suffer and starve. The very institution that professes what it does and then flaunt it's riches like that. What to do? Melt the precious metals down and feed the hungry would be a good start!

People can't eat molten metal.

RainySeptember · 08/08/2018 13:56

Die, do you have any links to where I might be able to read more about that, that literalism is a relatively modern view? I'd like to understand that better.

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 14:00

*Would you like to see the Sistine Chapel locked away for a private collector? Why would it need to be?

politicalcorrectnessisgreat · 08/08/2018 14:03

Let's not forget that people were sent to prison for not going to church only a short time ago and so it takes a lot of time for change to happen.

The nuns in my school hit us with rulers, do they still go to heaven since this is not seen as good or kind now? The nuns in Ireland did some horrific stuff as did the priests.

I too find it interesting that one religion or particular sect of it seems to think that their stories, rules etc are correct and the others are all wrong.

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 14:03

People can't eat molten metal. Maybe have a wee think about what can be bought in exchange for gold.

Ironfloor269 · 08/08/2018 14:04

We are made up of the culmination of star dust. When we die, the entity separates into its original parts I.e. ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

HOWEVER, in addition to this, what holds all these elements together is a 'soul' (for want of a better word). It is not me, and it has no characteristics of myself. When we die, this gets released (among with the and other elements) and goes and attaches onto another suitable foetus or life form.

At least that's what I believe.