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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

What do you think happens when we die?

555 replies

Frosty6611 · 05/08/2018 12:28

Just had this discussion with my DP and mum and we all had a completely different answers.

I believe in reincarnation.

My DP is an atheist and believes nothing happens.

My mum believes in heaven/hell.

OP posts:
RainySeptember · 08/08/2018 07:45

Or maybe some of the things believers take as truth, were only ever meant metaphorically.

AnxiousPeg · 08/08/2018 07:50

There were a lot of computer analogies at the start of the thread- presumably because of the Stephen Hawking quote.

I find this puzzling. I know there's this massive issue of lack of evidence for any sort of afterlife. But (it seems to me) there's plenty of evidence that we are more than some sort of organic computer!

Do computers have feelings? Do they love and hope and despair??

Can a computer be moved to tears by a piece of music? Why are we affected by art? What is the point of our appreciation of a beautiful sunset?

I always think that those people who claim death is like a computer failing have a very different experience of what it is to live from my own experience.

thegreylady · 08/08/2018 07:53

When I look at refugee camps full of starving, suffering children, battlefields full of death then at posh areas filled with wealth and excess of every kind the very idea of God takes a hammering. How can any of this be ‘right’ ?

PerfectlySymmetricalButtocks · 08/08/2018 07:55

Frazzled that story makes my brain hurt. Although God could have said that everyone was the person in the first place. 😂

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 08:12

@AnxiousPeg I mentioned the organic computer idea. I too believe we're more than the body. The true essence of us being the source though.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 08:21

When resolving disputes the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit - again, obviously not going to convince a non-believer - but that's what we believe. Both written and oral tradition is drawn upon. So the Bible is written tradition, but there's plenty of unwritten tradition. There's also written tradition NOT in the Bible such as the works of the Church Fathers.

PerfectlySymmetricalButtocks · 08/08/2018 08:28

almost autistic literalism

I'm autistic and I'm not a literalist. 😀

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 08:31

I'm autistic and I'm not a literalist. 😀

OK, but literalism is a symptom of autism right (my brother is autistic so I have some familiarity with it) - it's not hugely offensive to say that I hope?

lazyhazysummer · 08/08/2018 09:19

When I look at refugee camps full of starving, suffering children, battlefields full of death then at posh areas filled with wealth and excess of every kind the very idea of God takes a hammering. How can any of this be ‘right’ ?
It isn't right, but why is it Gods fault. Blame it all on man. There's enough food in this world to feed everyone, it's mans greed and inhumanity. Battlefields full of death are also mans faullt. I always think God must despair at what we are, but i'm certain he didn't put us on this earth to wet nurse us, what would be the point. He's promised us the kingdom of Heaven.....this isn't it.

PerfectlySymmetricalButtocks · 08/08/2018 09:23

No, I was being slightly tongue in cheek. I often complain about DD being a literalist! I always think she's being cheeky, then I realise that she can't cope with turns of phrase! 😂 I only tick 2 of the boxes for autism anyway. I'm sure you know that not all autistic people have all the symptoms. 😀

bowtieandheels · 08/08/2018 09:33

Read Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, she's the world leading expert on dying, death and the afterlife and after reading her book it's totally changed my perspective on such matters.

HisNoodlyAppendage · 08/08/2018 09:36

Ooh how many times has she died??

HisNoodlyAppendage · 08/08/2018 09:37

Lol you might as well claim someone’s the worlds leading expert on fairies 😁

WraithBabe · 08/08/2018 09:41

Rationally, I believe it all just stops, like a light going out. But I've seen a ghost (even though I don't rationally believe in them either - and it really was something that had no other explanation) so... I don't know ... There are things that are not understood yet.

eggncress · 08/08/2018 09:49

Having seen a ghost ( in the flesh, so to speak Grin) I think there is something else.
Before that I thought it was just nothingness.

politicalcorrectnessisgreat · 08/08/2018 09:52

I always think God must despair at what we are, but i'm certain he didn't put us on this earth to wet nurse us,

What did he put us here for ? I'm interested in what Christians think the animals are here for too, I think some humans think the insects, fish and everything else is here for humans. You do realise that the world was around millions of years before humans don't you?
What about all the other gods that were worshipped before this one? For thousands of years? Are they not real and are all the millions of people who died before 'the real God' was discovered all in hell because they didn't know the rules yet?

WhatisFreddoingnow · 08/08/2018 09:57

If it helps, no part of the New Testement is viewed as metaphorical. Almost all of Jesus’s teaching are in parables but we are obviously not meant to read the parables literally. We understand the literary device that Jesus was using.

The Old Testament is filled with genres and devices which are to be taken in varying degrees and types as literal. There are poems and songs whilst the Historical Books within the Old Testement are clearly to be taken as history.

As to ‘who decides’, ask two Christians and they will give two different answers. For Catholics, the early Church fathers played a role.

More important than what is literal and what is literary is the lessons that are taught. We are under no obligation to believe certain parts of the Old Testement are literal and others are not. I would just mention that it was a Catholic Priest who started the Big Bang Theory. Science is the ‘how’ and faith is the ‘why’.

My view: God spoke to His people to the level of their scientific development. That’s why we don’t need to take a literal view of Genesis.

Vitalogy · 08/08/2018 10:54

What did he put us here for ? I like these quotes by Alan Watts:

"We are an aperture through which the universe is looking out and exploring itself"

"We are the witness through which the universe becomes conscious of it's glory, of it's magnificence"

"Our role is not to understand but to appreciate - Terence McKenna

WhatisFreddoingnow · 08/08/2018 11:20
  1. What did he put us here for ?
  1. Role of animals
We do realise that the world was around for much longer than humans. God created the world for humans and we have dominion over the world. Obviously, it took much longer to create the world than a few days. Only young earth creationists would argue differently. I’ve never met any Catholics who don’t ascribe to a scientific version of ‘how’ the earth was created.
  1. Other Gods
This comes down to personal belief. I believe that catholicism has the full truth. It makes the most sense to me. The real God was never ‘discovered’. He chose to reveal Himself over the years at the right time according to his plans. Are other religions wrong? Not necessarily. I would argue that while they may have some truth, they don’t have the full truth. Any good done in the name of God goes to the same place Grin
  1. Hell and non-believers
I can’t say who goes to hell or not. The Catholic Church has never condemned anyone to hell. The church has specifically said that people who haven’t heard of God are not damned by circumstances. We can’t even say who goes to heaven (although we believe Saints most likely do). We don’t believe people following other religions go to hell. We just simply don’t know. At most, we believe that God is merciful and loving and we will face all face him in our personal judgement.
Original poster
Frosty6611 · 08/08/2018 11:38

For those who don’t believe in any sort of afterlife/God etc, do you think bad things happen to certain people purely because of bad luck? Someone who is brutally murdered at a young age for example - is it just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time for them? And someone else who lives to be 100 and has a fabulous life are just lucky?

OP posts:
Johnnycomelately1 · 08/08/2018 12:20

frosty- basically, yes (although obviously most people also contribute to their outcomes through poor or good decisions). I definitely don't think it's comeuppance for deeds in a former life.

MasonJar · 08/08/2018 12:55

It isn't right, but why is it Gods fault. Blame it all on man. There's enough food in this world to feed everyone, it's mans greed and inhumanity. Battlefields full of death are also mans faullt.

So god isn't responsible for bad things happening?
This should mean that he isn't responsible for good things either, but he seems to take the credit.
Christians give thanks and praise god when people survive disasters, recover from serious illnesses etc. but absolve him from blame when millions of people suffer.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 12:58

What did he put us here for ? I'm interested in what Christians think the animals are here for too, I think some humans think the insects, fish and everything else is here for humans. You do realise that the world was around millions of years before humans don't you?

I'm going beyond what my Church teaches here because the mind of God is unknowable - but I think God creates because he's a creator. It's in his nature to pour himself out into creations. They're not for anything any more than poetry is for something (although some specific poems might be for something, worship, emotional release, political activism - but none of that is the "purpose" of poetry).

What about all the other gods that were worshipped before this one? For thousands of years? Are they not real and are all the millions of people who died before 'the real God' was discovered all in hell because they didn't know the rules yet?

Some of them we're "the" God but not fully revealed, some were the legends of heroes or ancestors blown up over the generations, some were demons (yes I believe that) and some had elements of more than one or all of those facets.

And no. God is merciful and loves humanity. No-one is in hell for being born in the wrong place at the wrong time or for not following a set of rules that they didn't know or didn't understand. The Sabbath is for man, not man for the Sabbath anyway. God's justice is nothing like human law. He loves us more than we love our own children, he doesn't "send us to hell" for breaking rules.

DieAntword · 08/08/2018 13:02

So god isn't responsible for bad things happening?
This should mean that he isn't responsible for good things either, but he seems to take the credit.

If I give someone a thousand pounds - that's on me, I gave them that. If they choose to spend it on hookers on blow, that's on them. If someone steals it - that's on the thief. If I stop the thief that's on me, but if I don't stop the thief, that's still the thief whose responsible for the theft, not me for not stopping him (even if I conceivably could have).

Maliali · 08/08/2018 13:09

Heart and brain activity all ceases. You are dead. Body buried, burned etc. Job done. To think we are anything other than organic matter that gradually wears out and dies like all other organic matter does eventually, is a conceit. Being unable to accept the finality of death is difficult at best and impossible at worst so we have to come up with ideas and concepts that make it more bearable