To have had enough already?

[Jenjenyeahyeah]

Sorry this is long :( We’re only a few weeks in to the holidays and I’m at the point already where I dread every single day and feel like I’m just waiting for bedtime. I have two girls, 5 and 6, and anything and everything I try to do with them just ends up a bloody nightmare. I know myself that I don’t do well without structure, so term time I find better with the set times for school, then I get on with my jobs in the house for the day then school pick up and after school clubs, homework and bath stories bed.

Without a set structure to the holidays I try to let the girls relax but also do stuff with them, go for walks, painting, paddling pool, movie afternoon with treats - and every evening after a nightmarish day I say to myself that tomorrow I will try harder and that we’ll have fun and I’ll enjoy the time with them while they’re off school. But every day, anything I try to do just ends up turning to crap real quick. Examples - yesterday got I got rolls of wallpaper out for doing big painting in the garden - within MINUTES older girl had rubbed blue paint on the dog and was then rushing toward the laundry line to rub her hands all over the fresh drying laundry. Today, it was hot so set up the paddling pool for them, they had a little paddle and a play with the bath toys I’d brought down but then older girl decides to grab handfuls of mud from the flower bed and start chucking it in the pool - then younger one starts to copy. They then stood on the side of the pool so all the water came out. Dinner time they purposely threw most of the food on the floor, and bath time they spat toothpaste at me and older child kept sticking her fingers up her nose and rubbing it all over the bathroom tiles. Board games get trashed, books get trashed, everything gets broken, nothing respected and the house trashed by the end of every day. Going out ends up a dissster as we’ll be 5 minutes into a walk and one will decide they want to go home, or shopping older girl will behave really badly (lifting her skirt, grabbing items off the shelves, shouting). I give warnings, say they will lose things (toys, tv time etc) and I follow through if they still don’t stop. Older girl especially I feel like she’s doing certain things on purpose to upset me/get a reaction (eg last week i’d just vacuumed and she proceeded to empty all the crumbs from her pack of crisps onto the floor then stamp on it...I made her clean it up once she’d calmed down enough for her to listen to me) but I just feel like by 2pm I’m counting the hours until bedtime, which I feel really sad and guilty about. But I’m just not having fun. Is this normal? What am I doing wrong? Why am I finding it so difficult to spend an entire day wit my own children at the moment. Aibu and does everyone just deal with this in the holidays and I need to stop feeling so moany?

My little girl took the pasta out of the cupboard today and deliberately emptied it all over the clean kitchen floor. She thought it was hilarious. She's 18 months, but I had better get the referral lined up now as the waiting lists are long and she's clearly a psychopath in the making.

I'm with Ennirem, the only things I would take issue with would be blue paint on the washing and the dog. Everything else can be vacuumed up later.

What the OP needs is advise on how to chill out a bit with it. I am naturally messy, so Diagon alley taking up half my house for weeks on end didn't bother me massively, we tidied it all up the week before school started, but I think OP likes things a little more orderly than that. I also think its got to the point that the kids know its upsetting her and are deliberately pressing her buttons. Most of the behaviour described could be ignored or distracted with something else.

No @Ennirem, that's unnecessary because there's a world of difference in the behaviour of an 18month old and a 6 year old. Or there should be. That's the point.

Absolutely there should, and I'm not saying the behaviour isn't unacceptable and needed to be managed. But she isn't hurting others or herself, she isn't demonstrating mood swings or depression, she isn't displaying could language or sexually inappropriate behaviour - she's being messy, cheeky and rather immature. Do you honestly think throwing food on the floor warrants referral to a mental health assessment?

A 6 year old deliberately throwing food on the floor for her mother to clean up?
Well, of the approx 100 6 year olds I know, not a single one would do that.
So, Yes, I think that behaviour would warrant some input from someone who knows about children's behaviour.

Ennirem thank you for your words - it’s actually really upsetting after a shit day to read people calling my children awful :(
Behaviour-wise the littler one is just fine, she will just get caught up in her sisters antics sometimes. The big one, I do struggle with her behaviour and attitude at home, although she has just finished year 1 and will be going in to year 2 at school in September and she’s doing really well, the teachers say she’s polite and intelligent. She doesn’t play up for my husband, but he works away, so for the most part it’s just me and them.

I am firm, and I don’t think I’m one of those helicopter parents trying desperately to please my children and fill every waking hour, it’s just that all the advice I have read suggests that naughty behaviour comes from boredom or wanting attention, so I thought that doing fun actives would combat both those things. People suggesting I don’t try so hard, I’m just not sure how - for example if I just let them into the garden unsupervised i know that the older one would find trouble in no time (pulling petals off all the flowers, kicking all the gravel from the sides to etc). I do tell her off, and she does have consequences to her actions - she lost toys today and her video game for tomorrow - but she just carries on - after I’ve taken stuff away or not given pudding etc she says she doesn’t care - and I don’t know what my next move is.

Term time is much easier, because although her bevhaviour is still challenging I guess I get a break, and she’s tired from school and by the time we get back from clubs it’s pretty much just homework and bed.

Ye Gods. Do you have any idea what CAMHS is for? Do you know there are teenagers who are actively suicidal/violent waiting over 6 months for counselling? Do you really think defiance isn't something the OP should be able to handle herself with a few strategies, without resorting to mental health services??

Christ no wonder the NHS and social care is on its knees, if people genuinely believe children who throw food on the floor (hell, I've known perfectly capable grown adults throw food on the floor in a moment of frustration) require mental health treatment. Same kind of people who'd go to the hospital for a hangover 🙄

It sounds as if your oldest dd is attention seeking. I would maybe try and spend some 1-2-1 time with her doing something she enjoys. That been said her behaviour is very extreme and I would let her now how disappointed I was with her behaviour. I don’t know if you have tried this but my kids have a star chart that once they have reached 25 stars they can choose a fun day out like going to the zoo etc. Every 5 stars they get a reward like choosing a film to watch, buying a magazine going for ice cream, it really helps my daughter who is 6 to see how many more stars she needs to get a reward. I also never take stars away.

I don't think the hands-off approach is any good when things are not working. It's a bit of a luxury for when they are working imo. I think fully engaging, preferably outside the house, is best when things are tricky.

OP I'm sorry you're feeling crap. If it makes you feel any better, my kids have been pains in the arses today too. It's very hot. I must say that I resign myself to the house being a tip during the holidays, much less stressful for everyone.

I’m thinking the same as poster above - maybe the very small gap between your daughters is in play and she resents having to share you so much. Maybe try what one PP suggested and send the two girls to an activity group at different times, give some real focussed one to one time with the other doing something you enjoy doing together, and see if doing this regularly helps the behaviour improve? She’s not doing anything that obviously advantages her (stealing, say, or whinging constantly for treats and toys) so I can only assume she’s trying to get your attention, and even being punished for her naughtiness is worth it to be the centre of your focus. It’s worth a try anyways. Good luck OP, don’t feel shit - you’re doing your best!

Poor you Op you must be exhausted, although l confess to feeling pretty cross reading about your eldests behavior.....

If mine dared to do one of those things you mentioned in the garden they would be sharply punished ie, in room for 30 minutes then apology before being aloud to play again.

I do understand the whole, she just gets worse with punishment, my DD went through a stage at 5 where if she didn't get her way and got punished she would do something worse out of annoyance, l just would not give an inch...it would go on for a couple of days where she would be naughty or disobey me and l would give her a consequence then she would be furious and do something else...and something else

I soon wised up and rearranged plans so l had no commitments l couldn't drop and just stayed calm (difficult as it was) and lined up each punishment as she determinedly pushed the boundaries to see if l would give up,
l didn't,
although l stuck to established rules and consequences as with her brother, the longest stretch of her being like this was 4 days, in that time we left a party, cut short a trip to the park, missed a cinema visit, stopped TV time, had several time outs in her room ! Eventually she realised l was never going to give up enforcing consequences for bad behavior, ..... at one point she was sat in a bedroom with just her bed and furniture and not one toy as all had been confiscated!

Then just as suddenly as this started it stopped, just like that, she seemed to realise that she had to behave well or lose out on all the fun stuff......she has been a joy since and is now the easiest 12 yr old.

This stage went on for about 2 to 3 months, but my son never went through it, for some reason.

Work out your consequences, put them on a poster in the kitchen with fun things only for good behavior, talk it through with her and start, be prepared to be very calm, and not give an inch....good luck!

Also, is there anywhere in the house your daughter can just make a mess - kick things about, pull them apart, leave them lying around, without it being “naughty”? A lot of the bad behaviour seems to be around creating mess, so maybe giving her an outlet where she can be less tidy than you obviously are without consequences (on the understanding that she tidied it up at the end of the day etc) might be useful? Wendy house or something? I was a right messy bugger as a child, used to pull all the ‘whips and feathers’ off my nan’s pampas etc - wasn’t trying to be bad, I was just playing. Luckily for me my man took the view these things grow back and it kept me and my sister busy.... maybe she needs a bit more freedom to play in a less structured way that your (really thoughtful!) planned activities?

Do you ‘catch’ the good behaviour and try to praise it when you see it? Your 6 year old is still so little - positive reinforcement can work such wonders at this age so I’d really try hard to see and praise the good things she does - even if they’re small at first.

Thanks I hope just giving a really good push at the consequences will work, I’m going to work on that - it’s good to hear a story of it being difficult but eventually working. Charts just don’t seem to work, I’ve tried but it’s like they couldn’t give a hoot about how many stars they’ve got or what they’ll get if they achieve a certain number of stars. It’s difficlt also because when my husband is home he’s all fun and no consequences and although he’ll do the whole ‘if you do this then this will happen’ he’ll never see it through, so I think I’m the bad boring mummy and he’s the nice fun one. But then it’s back to just me alone with them and difficult behaviour.
It’s a good point about maybe just letting them get messy, I’m certainly no Hyacinth Bucket but I do like my house to be clean and tidy. I’m fine with play doh and slime etc but now I feel like I’m becoming not ok with these things because I can deal with the ‘normal’ amount of mess made from playing with stuff like this (play doh crumbs under the table etc) but dread getting stuff like this out as I know that very quickly it will escalate into older girl running off and rubbing it into the carpet or the sofa. I don’t think I’m overly precious about my house, but it’s annoying having to take of the sofa cushions to wash out green slime. I guess I wish they would play ‘normally’ with the stuff - is it unreasonable or unrealistic to expect that a 6 year old will not take play doh and slime and find things to smear it on in the house rather than actually play/create with it? Just feel like I’m obviously not doing something right but on paper I’m following all the good advice on how to deal with naughty behaviour.

Yes always, she’s really good at drawing and she draws these wonderful little comic strips, and leave them as presents for her sister and for my husband and occasionally me - or if she’s helped her sister find something/open something/reach something or if she’s eaten her dinner without a fuss I’ll make sure she has a nice pudding and make sure she knows that because she ate well and was good that’s why a good thing is now happening.

If you can't hack the mess, don't do messy stuff. Plenty of people don't.

I think a six year old should know not to smear playdoh etc on the furniture, but, y'know, she is only 6. I would not leave her alone with it long enough to find out if she is prone to doing that stuff. No doubt you are constantly saying 'keep it on the table, keep it on the table, KEEP IT ON THE TABLE' etc?

Shaving foam in the bath is a good one for kids who need to make a big old mess. I used to put food colouring (a TINY BIT) in when I was feeling brave.

It sounds like there could be some sensory issues with your older dd. You made try and get some TheraPutty you can get a tub on Amazon for a few pound. It isn’t as easy to smear everywhere. Another thing you could try is slimebaff my daughter has one once a week and loves it and knows the slime has to stay in the bath, she actually can’t get out without help as the bath gets so slidey.

I would stop doing fun things for the OP they don't deserve it with behaviour like that! What you are putting up with (allowing to happen really) is rediculous. No wonder you want rid of them.

*Ridiculously

*ridiculous, ffs

Yes she absolutely knows what she shouldn’t do (like smear green slime on the sofa) but will do it anyway and almost gets a thrill out of it because it’s naughty. I just feel some days that all fun stuff that we can do is just getting less and less as she’ll always find a way to make it into something unpleasant. Gah I hate talking about her that way because she IS lovely, and she can be thoughtful and kind and she’s very bright. It’s just any activity seems to end the same way at the moment - with it being done not as intended and being done to just cause mess and a reaction from me. She’d happily sit in her pants all day and play xbox, but I don’t think I’m being unreasonable to think that that’s not the best way to spend the day for anyone let alone a 6 year old

When either of my boys play up, I sit them on the couch no tv, no games, no playing. After about 5 mins of sitting bored stiff they with riddle through to wherever I am and apologise for their behaviour and be allowed to go back to whatever they were doing (if it's a genuine apology). Instead of taking things away all the time you could perhaps try that.
Another one I do is guilt trip them, I pit on a sad face, tell them how disappointed and sad they are making me with their behaviour. That always works a treat too.

I don’t want rid of them. I just feel like we’re all having a shit time and everyone seemed happier when there was the structure of school (and I had a little break for a few hours a day :) )
That’s the thing, if I stop doing stuff with them, what will we do? Just watch tv? They will play together, and the littler one will sit for ages and play with her dolls but the bigger one has never really been into playing with toys, she’ll draw and she likes computers and writing etc but she doesn’t really ‘play’

Take the Xbox away completely, let her know its for a long time until you can trust her to be able to behave properly and you have seen an improvement in her behaviour. Tell her Xbox is for big girls and if she can't act like a big girl she doesn't get it.
I wpuld also make sure there is nothing more to this, perhaps something going on at school that she hasn't told you (bullying etc). Was she like this before she started school?

Oh I didnt mean that in a bad way sorry, that didn't come out right. Bot "rid of them" just a break from them 😂