To believe that formula companies have PR agents working the BF/FF threads on here?

[CocoDeMoll]

They are a multi million pound set of companies that are invested in keeping Britain’s low breastfeeding rates down and keeping their profit margins up.

Any positives about breastfeeding seem to be shot down in flames on here.

So much pro formula and anti breastfeeding rhetoric.

They can easily afford to and have the best at the jobs be it lawyers, pr teams or spin doctors on their sides and they’re not exactly renounced for their ethics are they (nestle?!?!).

Or am I just getting a bit tied up in conspiracy therorys?

Without doubt there will be posters commenting who are paid to promote products, activities and services on Mumsnet and other forums. If you think it's bad on bf vs ff threads, you should take a look at the menopause topic. Any mention of HRT and they pile in. It's quite amusing to see them talking to each other a lot of the time.

I have always thought that Aptimil are the worst for their awful TV adverts, and I never used it as a result. But estimates say that a 'tiny minority' of between 1 and 5 percent of women (so a minimum of around 8k per year) don't produce enough milk to exclusively breastfeed so it is hardly surprising many MNETTERS have has this experience personally.Yabu OP.

There is some seriously OTT shit on this thread. Hating women who want to ff so they can go out 2 weeks after birth... OK then. Wtaf does it have to do with you I imagine LO is well looked after by their father.

And in terms of fed is best..... I wonder where all the threads are with faces for the dc who are taken into care and not properly looked after - I've never actually seen one on MN. Why are people so invested in whether other women breastfeed it's just weird and a bit obsessive I think.

Women should be supported better after birth including with breastfeeding, I think everyone agrees with this. We need a culture change away from vile misogyny towards new mums which a lot of the views on this thread add to. Set women against each other, divide and conquer.

I do agree that if you dare to say you are proud of bf or that you've done it for a long time it becomes somehow offensive to those that don't or haven't.

But really Jax it's the same thing isn't it? Overinvestment in what other women do. I think it's great when women succeed at stuff and I wouldn't wish having a dehydrated baby admitted to hospital on anyone else.

I’m prochoice

In these endless debates over ff v ebf can we at least cut this disgusting verbiage? This terminology refers to abortion rights and abortion rights only.

I think that there’s no other subject on which you’re dissuaded from talking about the risks (however small) in case they make other mothers feel bad. If I say that giving your DC ham sandwiches every day is ill advised because it’s a known carcinogen, or that less than optimum car seat choices can kill, or that putting baby to sleep on their front can lead to cot death then nobody will say “but saying that will lead to mums who made different choices feeling bad” even though there will be some women out there whose babies actually did die from the latter. If I say on a thread to a depressed and overweight mother that getting out and doing C25K would have a huge impact on depression, cancer and dementia risk then nobody will say that I shouldn’t say that because some people have ME/agoraphobia/no childcare and can’t manage it. But getting into gastroenteritis, IQ and breast cancer risks from ff is off limits and invalid anyway because they’re a figment of the breastfeeding bras marketing association.

Let’s not forget that we are talking about companies who have knowing killed tens of thousands of babies through their deliberate actions in the pursuit of profit. I don’t think we should assume that they’d stop at anything as long as they thought they’d get away with it. NB that obviously I don’t think that all the pro-ff posters on MN are shills - I just wouldn’t put it past the marketeers to have come up with “fed is best”.

Back to the topic at hand—I think people really underestimate marketing department strategies. I used to work in media, and they are super aggressive in promoting their brands and how they are written about; social media strategy is very important, you can rest assured that any company of considerable size has people post wherever their target market happens to be. Mumsnet has parents posting about feeding; they are going to be here for sure to influence the culture at large.

Now that Nestle and its ilk cannot advertise directly or say that formula is better or just as good as formula, they had to re-tweak their marketing strategy to reach their target audience. It’s just their job, nothing more.

Meant to say formula is just as good as breastfeeding

Well they probably do trawl and add things. If you’re struggling to breastfeed, or don’t want to, then there is a lot of money being ploughed into those beautiful and really rather expensive tins.

Unlike the Fail who seem to just sneak on here and steal threads for pathetic click bait “articles”

Perfectly plausible. Also perfectly plausible that formula companies could be posting some of the more aggressively pro-bf messages given that they inevitably result in hundreds of pro-formula comments in response!

Twinny is it you?

I'd say they very likely do post on here. Until last year I worked for a company (with very well known products) who paid a marketing company to get vlogers and bloggers to recommend the products and to post on forums such as this. It's a relatively cheap but very effective way to market. Also remember that formula manifacturers are not allowed to advertise first baby milk so they will do all they can to get round it (hence the con of follow on milks)
I also agree that their are paid posters on the Brexit threads. There are different usernames but their posting style is very similar, using the same points and standard phrases, never really answering specific questions or engaging in the discussion.

Breastfeeding figures are pretty flawed. I was counted at not breastfeeding because i had mix fed as well though i bf well past one. My friend too was also discounted for giving 2 bottles of formula. So i believe statistics are better but anecdotal wise most i know have bf at first then mix fed rather then exclusive. So not counted statistics.

Yanbu to think there is marketing on these sites. It would be naive to think no. I knew a colleague used to work for a popular food company and would hit up sites and social media to say how great it was. Subtly of course, or such was his aim.

But to think all is, is wrong. I love bf but ff saved my tongue tied babes from dehydration and poorliness. So i mixed it up.

There is definatly an undertone of rudeness/jealously from some commenters regarding anyone who says they are proud to have bf. I found bf'ing really hard with dc 2 and 3. It was painful. I was tired etc. But other bf'ing parents push through that so they do deserve to be proud. Why other parents refuse to aknowledge this is just confusing! It's exactly the same as when you dare say you had a natural birth and are proud!

It's not mothers who are proud of breastfeeding that make FF mums angry and upset. They should be damn proud of what they have achieved. In some cases it is extremely hard to BF and I personally couldn't do it, but I sincerely commend the strength of those who can.

It is the constant judgement, and please don't tell me it doesn't happen because I've not only experienced this personally, but on these boards and it's rife in this thread.

Those who BF should be proud, and good for them! But those who FF should not be judged harshly for doing so. We are all women and we are all new mums which is one of the hardest jobs to do. Why do we then feel the need to constantly jab and pick at things others do. We should be supportive and stick together not on different sides of the camp FF vs. BF. The whole thing is ludicrous.

And the fact that the OP, and others on this thread are assuming there are Nestle moles on these boards because FF mums feel they need to stand up for themselves just proves my point entirely.

I don't understand why people get so invested in what other mums do with their own breasts and their own babies. I hated the very idea of bf. I would not even consider it. I felt it was my body and I suffered enough in pregnancy. Just let individuals make up their own minds so they can get some enjoyment from their babies, its a stressful enough time becoming a mum as it is.

The really don't need to. They are insidious and everywhere with their "advice lines" and "free cuddly toy" and "training sessions for midwives" and adverts for follow-on on prime time telly.

They are underhand and devious and untransparent, but don't think they work at as micro a level as infiltrating forums. They also have plenty of happy and unpaid customers to to that for them.

Definitely not on the same MN as me.

I am one of the small percentage of women who didn't produce milk to bf due to breast reduction surgery years ago. I got a load of shit on here, including people saying I was selfish to have had the surgery, should have thought of my future children then, that I was basically dooming my kids to all sorts of awful things.

I wish there had been a nice friendly Nestle rep on the thread I was on! I'd have fallen at their feet and wept with joy.

(I am not a secret ff marketing bot!)

And the fact that the OP, and others on this thread are assuming there are Nestle moles on these boards because FF mums feel they need to stand up for themselves just proves my point entirely

Yeah, sure, much of it is organic. But you’d be hopelessly naive to think companies don’t do this. What do you think marketing departments are for? What would any effective marketing department do, if they were banned from advertising their product?

Go where their audience is. It is very simple—this isn’t cloak and dagger stuff, it’s very, very common for companies (not just Nestle) to do this!

@PolkerrisBeach THAT is precisely the attitude and judgement I was referring to.

Thursday

But to be honest I dont think women should be pressured in to continuing something that is so painful. It's a bit like during birth. There's much talk that you should do it "the lovely natural way" with no pain relief, but actually labour is bloody painful and I don't see why women should suffer when they don't have too.

I don't think women should be pressured into doing anything they don't want to. I am all for women choosing formula if that is their wish, elective c sections on demand etc - as long as these are informed decisions, then it's nobody's business to interfere. But is the fact breastfeeding is often difficult and can be painful initially basically enough reason in itself to say "we've passed that now, we should move on to more modern methods"?

A lot of new things are difficult and can be painful at first - exercise, for example. But still worth pursuing, both for the self-esteem of having pushed through and achieved your goal, and for the long term health benefits. I'm not saying people should be frog-marched out into the road and made to do star jumps; but I also don't think we should say "well, modern medicine can keep you going now no matter how unfit you are, so if exercise is difficult and uncomfortable for you, don't bother!"

But still worth pursuing, both for the self-esteem of having pushed through and achieved your goal, and for the long term health benefits.

But don't you see that this is pressure? You're implying women who FF should have lower self-esteem than women who BF.

Honestly, I can't see why anyone cares how I feed my child.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a pro-follow on milk poster on MN. Wouldn’t there be some of that if formula companies were posting here?

@PineapplePower They probably do. I don't disagree, but the the way this thread has unravelled suggests that people believe they are responsible for all the 'pro-formula' (why is that even a thing?!) posts, when in actual fact, it is FF mums that feel they need to come in here to defend their pampering decisions as they feel 'under attack'. And speaking as a FF mum, we do feel judged and under attack sometimes, particularly on threads like this!

*parenting. Pampering decisions are a whole new thread