To believe that formula companies have PR agents working the BF/FF threads on here?

[CocoDeMoll]

They are a multi million pound set of companies that are invested in keeping Britain’s low breastfeeding rates down and keeping their profit margins up.

Any positives about breastfeeding seem to be shot down in flames on here.

So much pro formula and anti breastfeeding rhetoric.

They can easily afford to and have the best at the jobs be it lawyers, pr teams or spin doctors on their sides and they’re not exactly renounced for their ethics are they (nestle?!?!).

Or am I just getting a bit tied up in conspiracy therorys?

In a developed country, there’s very little difference. The main difference is the antibodies and by about two, most kids have built up an immunity anyway.

It’s like fresh and frozen brocolli. Fresh is slightly better but marginally.

This really isn't true. Look up the ingredients of breastmilk vs formula. It's pretty eye-opening! Additionally, the formula of formula has changed over time, with producers often altertering their ingredients depending on their target market. Another point:

“ARA (promoted as enhancing “visual acuity”) and DHA (touted for advancing “neurological development”) have been added to infant formula since 1997. Both these long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids are found in human breast milk and, in this form, contribute to eye and neurological development. But over the past five years, WHO and the Cochran Collaboration, a London-based research organisation, have published policy statements and studies concluding that ARA and DHA, when used as additives, do not improve infants’ development.”

More reasons that the formula industry needs more regulation and scrutiny to provide the best product possible to tiny infants when they need it most.

But I have heard that story so often told as "I tried for 2 days but I had no milk-I had to give her formula" "The midwife gave her a bottle because I had no milk" Because people don't know. "She was losing weight-I had to give her formula" "I was pumping-but nothing came out-I had to give her formula"

BertrandRussell

That means they felt they had to, because they had no confidence that the milk was going to come. And who knows, in each individual case, whether or not it would have come? What we do know is, in the meantime, there is a distressed, exhausted mum and a hungry baby. The choice to give formula should be informed - so, it should be made clear to the mother by a HCP that it is normal for the milk to take a couple of days to come through properly - but certainly not critiqued by anybody else.

This really isn't true. Look up the ingredients of breastmilk vs formula. It's pretty eye-opening! Additionally, the formula of formula has changed over time, with producers often altertering their ingredients depending on their target market.

Well yes, products recipes change. I’m not really sure why that’s a problem.

Sibling studies found no statistically measurable difference in IQ or anything else between breastfed and non breastfed babies, which suggests that many benefits don’t actually make much difference.

The only proven one is the antibodies that protect against infectious illnesses early in life.

I agree that they shouldn’t be able to claim things without evidence of course!

Maybe they have be made to remove claims since then
It is interesting that the US cans still have the claims and the UK ones don't.

Sorry if I came across as a bit rude earlier, I honestly don't know why I did that.

I must admit that I think you have some great ideas, BF or FF whatever you want but let's have some honesty regarding FM from these multinationals. I like that!!

Some HCP believe the advertising and promote formula. I was told formula is ‘medicine’ by nurses! If women are being given incorrect information by staff it won’t help.

I believe people underestimate what’s lengths formula marketing companies go to. Advertising of all formula should be banned in the UK. Hospitals shouldn’t be even allowed to promote milk either. Why are hospitals giving out 2 or 3 main brands. Who makes this decision? Why? And why not buy Aldi own brand for example?

It is easier for staff to monitor a ff baby (input) rather than the output of a bf baby.

What I’ve noticed from perusing the websites of the formula giants is its all about undermining confidence, and I think this is the key to any products marketed at women. There’s a lot of mention of breastfeeding, infant feeding ‘helplines’ but a massive focus on feeding problems. So you go on Aptamil or sma websites and there’s a quizz, a bit like if you were buying shampoo. Do you have frizz/dry scalp? Does baby have colic/ reflux? Suspected CMPA (caused by our formula)? We have something to solve that for you!

I completely agree with this. I bought some Tommee Tippee breastpads, and also some bottles from the same company - who, while they make a small range of breastfeeding products, make a lot more for bottle-feeding, and presumably make a lot more money from that. I noticed that the breastpads had a blurb on the side about 'while breastfeeding can be wonderful, leaking breasts are embarrassing, so these breastpads will help' (paraphrasing, of course). The bottles just say that 'bottle feeding should be a relaxed and happy experience for you and your baby' (I still have that box to hand!), with no mentions of what might be tough about it. It was hard not to feel that, even though ostensibly positive about breastfeeding, it was designed to add just one more message of 'it's too hard and inconvenient'.

No problem @PersianCatLady. Agreed. And also we should be served better by government bodies whose purpose it is to protect the consumer. I think it’s separate issue to people’s personal choice whether to bf or ff but right now both options could be vastly improved. I actually think most reasonable people are in agreement here. No one should be forced to breastfeed, people who want to should have more help, and formula co’s should serve their consumers better!

Hospitals shouldn’t be even allowed to promote milk either. Why are hospitals giving out 2 or 3 main brands.

What should they give?

Sibling studies found no statistically measurable difference in IQ or anything else between breastfed and non breastfed babies, which suggests that many benefits don’t actually make much difference
Another problem with the existing studies is that external factors such as wealth and parental IQ cannot be effectively ruled out.

It just seems suspect to me for one formula company for example to advertise their formula as "free of sucrose" in one country, but contain sucrose in another, "no added vanilla flavour" but also producing a formulation with vanilla, etc. It all points to a product that is market-led, rather than science- or consumer-led, with the bottom line/profit margin as an overall target point. See the latest furore about Aptamil changing its recipe without informing anyone...

As someone said earlier, if there was the same amount of money pumped (ha) into researching breastmilk as was put into marketing formula, who knows what they might discover.

Hospitals shouldn’t be even allowed to promote milk either. Why are hospitals giving out 2 or 3 main brands. Who makes this decision? Why? And why not buy Aldi own brand for example?

Why? Does Aldi have some claim to being morally upstanding that I am not aware of?

Another problem with the existing studies is that external factors such as wealth and parental IQ cannot be effectively ruled out.

I always think this. The women who bf are usually middle class, educated women who probably are intelligent anyway and spend loads of time with their kids. A teenaged mum who only has GCSEs and has to go back to work is hardly a fair comparison.

And I’d like to see the price of formula regulated, in an ideal world. For it seems a double smack on the face for those who are unable to breastfeed to have to pay such high prices to feed their babies, plus it must contribute to some food poverty.

Grandmaswagsbag

I won't argue with that.

Formula is hideously expensive.

The one advantage (ha) of DS having allergies has been his formula is free.

@Arewwehomeyet There is almost nil advertising for formula, so your conspiracy theory about Nestle is redundant. Also, research shows that only the first few days of breastfeeding are truly vital. In fact, those that are formula fed are likely to be taller and more hardier than breast fed. So you are going on about a load of nonsense. The only people pitting breast feeders against formula feeders - are the militant breast feeders who want to FORCE people to breast feed even if it means the baby dies.

No Aldi was just an example. I’m sure there are many different brands. How does a hospital choose what formula to give? Our local offers cow and gate and aptimil for free. It was on display so mums could choose.

Someone in the hospital decides which formula to purchase and give to mums. Why aptimil and cow and gate? What’s so good about these brands? Aldi was my example as I think they sell their own milk and I am not aware of them advertising on TV etc.

If a hospital only stocks 2 brands it may seem they’ve think these brands are best. Surely this is advertising?

are the militant breast feeders who want to FORCE people to breast feed even if it means the baby dies

Who says this? And what do you possibly think their motivation is? I think it's true that there are people out there who use breastfeeding as a way to make mothers feel guilty (not as many of them as sometimes claimed, but they exist). I really don't think there are people who think that breastfeeding is more important than whether the baby lives...

Well actually if I’m talking an ideal world it would be free ! But that won’t ever happen, but I sure there could be more regulation. Someone else said on another thread recently that they know a gp who has a few times diagnosed allergies in babies simply because they could tell they couldn’t meet the costs of feeding and suspected they were watering down the formula. I know you can get healthy start vouchers but there will be lots of families on low to middle incomes that slip through the cracks with rising living costs to meet presumably. And even if you can meet the costs adequately, we’ll I don’t think anyone deserves to be ripped off!

43percentburnt

I'm imagining there is a trust-wide tender process for the milk, like there is for all products purchased by the NHS. I'm not saying it isn't subject to error, but I can't see what it has to do with this particular debate.

If a hospital only stocks 2 brands it may seem they’ve think these brands are best. Surely this is advertising?

I didn't think this happened in the UK (the hospital I gave birth in only provides formula on prescription), but it's known that in the US, where it certainly does happen, brand loyalty to the formula that people are first given in hospital is extraordinarily strong, and for that reason formula companies spend huge amounts of money on wooing hospitals so they'll provide their formula (as also happens with pharmaceuticals, of course).

Meh!

I bf all my kids varying to 3 months and my last twins to 18 months old. I did have a few hiccups like nipple thrush and a blocked duct, agony, but I really wanted to and generally found it convenient as we had lots of children.

My ddil and dsil really struggled and switched to formula early one.

Honestly looking at all our kids you couldn’t tell. They are all equally loved happy and well.

I don’t think the being fed notion is patronising at all. It’s factual. What is infantilising women Is being patted on the head by a male doctor and being told well done as happened to me on his mighty majesty being told by the nurse I was breastfeeding 1 year old twins. idiot.

In our developed country women can choose and let’s face it ok breast milk is designed by nature but ff is fine too.

I think it’s beaks out of women choices. Judge not. Babies will thrive whatever.

My hospital stocked two brands of formula. They didn’t offer any opinion them.