Is this punishment too much?

[LongHotSummer24715]

We are just back from a week long family holiday which was a bit tainted by my sulky 13 year old DSS. He's at a difficult age & refuses to do anything that he's asked without an argument - and then doesn't do it anyway! On the way home my DH realised that his DS had carved a design into our car door he's a bit old for that kind of behaviour. It's a brand new car & is going to cost a lot to repair. He has no explanation when confronted but did eventually apologise. When he was told he would have to pay for repairs himself (probably not true but he loves money so my DH felt this would hit home) he sulked, shouted & stormed off & now refuses to speak to us.
That's the back story - we have booked a 5 star hotel as an end of summer break before our new baby arrives in Sept. It's my favourite place and stupid money but it is worth it imo. I've told DH that I don't think DSS should be invited anymore as punishment for his shitty holiday behaviour and for damaging the car.
I'm tired, hormonal, disappointed at how ungrateful he is so I definitely could be U. If he was my child I would feel more comfortable deciding the punishment but as he's a step child I'm always worried that I'm over stepping the line.
Would it be awful to bring the other DC and not him? Should I cancel the trip completely as I feel he will ruin it with his attitude if he does come and it costs over 400 a night?

There are two issues. The first issue is the vandalism of the car. This clearly needs to be punished. It sounds that your DSS having to fund at least part of the repairs from his own money would both be a natural consequence and something that would resonate with him.

The second issue is the behaviour on your recent holiday. I think his dad should sit him down and - calmly - explain how it affected others’ enjoyment of the holiday and why it isn’t acceptable. He should then say that he really wants DSS to come on the hotel break, but he cannot take him if he is going to behave like that again. Ball then put firmly in DSS court - he comes and behaves or stays at home.

I agree with PPs that going straight to the holiday ban would be overly harsh and may lead to a further spiral of negativity.

Ask his mother what she thinks would be a suitable response to this behaviour. That way you can make sure you are all parenting together.

I won’t point out the obvious timescale correlation between ‘since Christmas’ and your due date as I’m sure you already know.

Whether he likes his younger half brother or not is neither here nor there, he could still be upset that the new baby will take his dad away.

Give yourself a break, enjoy your hotel break before baby arrives and definitely don't take him.

Define "carve" please. Inside or outside of the door?

He's a teen he probably feels pushed out, OP does seem to resent the lad.

It sounds like he ruins your holidays in a round about sulky 13 year old way (I have a child of the same age and it is a very tricky age with hormones and things changing and becoming an adult)

Car damage: long list of how he works off the repair. Car washing, cleaning, gardening, vacuuming, spring to mind.

I would really stop short of leaving him behind though it is just too harsh, he clearly feels really unhappy at the moment (otherwise he would not have done such a thing) and pissed off, if you push him out of the family now, you may not get him back. I would also level with him that he has to join in and get involved in a positive way or dh will drive him home. I have had talks with my dd about this very same thing.

I would not be worried about you resenting him, I would be most worried about the fall out in the future by pushing him away, when really now is the time to be really reeling him in and communicating with him.

What were his reasons for damaging the car?

Banning him from the September holiday is too far away, imo. Whilst he's old enough to remember why, you'll just get even more stroppy behaviour.

Docking pocket money, raiding his savings, not having money for x treat for the next week or two because you've paid out for the repairs are all more relatable.

But it seems to me that he might not be too happy at another baby taking his time with his dad away from him. 13 and step child or not, any child would show signs of jealousy in the same situation.

I definitely think that he should be made to pay towards the damage. And yes to letting him know what the full cost will be.

No I don't think you should exclude him from your next trip as a punishment - but - do you think he actually wants to come?

I was wondering what sort of relationship your DH has with his ex, if this is something they should discuss, the boy's behaviour in general?

He sounds really unhappy and crying out for attention. Excluding him from a family trip isn't going to fix anything, other than confirm to him that his feelings of not being part of the family unit are valid.

Does he ever just get time alone with his dad without his younger half sibling tagging along? He is old enough to know there will be less time, resources etc when another child comes along.

Your post shows no affection or worry about his behaviour, only that you want to exclude him. It's likely he knows that.

I think he should have had an instant punshment for the door such as loss of pocket money and a telling off but letting it drag on and excluding him from a big holiday is OTT and will cause massive resentment. I am not sure you would do this if he was your own son.

Great advice mineisarossini I would hate for him to feel left out of the family & not just a trip away. I've put years into my relationship with him for a reason; I love him.
He had no explanation for damaging the car, he tried to lie & blame DD initially, then admitted it & seemed ashamed. I wasn't involved in the conversation at the time & haven't discussed it with him as he isn't speaking to us as he's angry about contributing to the repairs. He has a savings acc that we pay into monthly that I don't want to touch. He also has pocket money thats saved in his room.

Imo, he either did it to get your DD in trouble or he was telling the truth first time around and it was your DD that did it. How old is she? Carving a drawing into the car seems more of a child thing to do rather than a 13 year old.

Follow through with your initial punishment, he won't know how much it costs just agree a suitable amount for him to pay back. I wouldn't cancel the whole holiday because of him.

OP, you have three kids between you and are about to have another. That's a fairly large family by modern standards. I'd take his stroppy behaviour and the fact that he was able to vandalise the car without being caught in the act as a sign that you are already spreading yourselves a bit too thinly, so your DSS is not getting the attention he needs from his dad and you. I know babies are cute, but you must know that they have this mysterious habit of growing into stroppy teenagers

Punish him if you want - I bet it won't work. And I bet if his dad spent a bit of time talking to him and finding out how DSS is feeling about everything and what HE wants from a holiday - then you'd probably find a big improvement in his behaviour and his happiness.

But I'm guessing you just want us to tell you to go ahead and leave an unhappy child out of a family treat because he tried to show you how he was feeling.

(Is it just me wondering why a very pregnant person wants to go to a posh hotel?? I'd be waddling about my house, whining in a nighty )

DD is 13, a few months older than DSS. The carving is definitely his artwork, he admitted he took the screwdriver from the boot (DH work tools) but couldn't express a reason why.

Agree with PP there are two issues:

Attitude and ruining a holiday - don’t get to come on the next one.

Defacing the car - he pays for repairs.

I’m quite surprised this has rumbled on for so long tbh, it seems quite obvious.

And trying to stitch your DD up was snide.

He must pay for the damage. It's the only fair punishment so take it in instalments out of pocket money, phone contact any way you see fit.

Something massively underlying going on here OP.

I wouldn't exclude him from the holiday, o think that's too harsh. I also think it makes a statement to a step child if they are excluded from the rest of the family (and his siblings who are already advantaged by having their parents living together). Find a different punishment!

Irrespective of the damage to the car, I’d cancel the holiday. It’s far too expensive to risk it being a nightmare. It sounds like it’s more suited to childfree holidays anyway.

IF I felt like going away still, I’d book something with far less pressure attached, or arrange for all of the children to be looked after and go away with DH for a couple of nights.

As for the car...I’d be furious, and he would know it. He would not be sulking about having to pay for it, because that would be the least of his worries. He’d be losing any and all gadgets, treats, freedom out with friends and anything else I could think of until he started actually being sorry for his actions, instead of for needing to pay for it. I would tell him that if he had anything he wanted to talk about, I was there for him, but that doesn’t excuse his wilful, destructive behaviour. Being soft on a thirteen year old because they have a sibling on the way is NOT a good idea. It just teaches them to make excuses for their shitty behaviour. Teach him to TALK, not act out, IF there’s an actual problem. That will stand him FAR better in the future than making excuses for him.

God knows whether the new baby is bothering him or not, but he needs teaching that you TALK about what’s bothering you, you don’t destroy things and act like a complete little shit in general. If more parents taught their kids this, there’d be far fewer entitled wankers in the world cheating on their partners, treating them like crap and generally thinking the world owes them.

You say you love him, get those boundaries firmed up.

I would personally sit him down again. Explain that you know full well he understands money and how wrong his behaviour was and you could give a choice of two punishments..
sell his Xbox (or something of similar value) to lay for he damages or not take him on holiday (save money and pay for damages that way).

I don’t think simply withholding pocket money is enough. That’s a very very deliberate act of vandalism

I would think that the cost of the repair is not going to be covered by selling a second hand Xbox or stopping pocket money for a few weeks. We are talking real money here and at 13 he is old enough to be told that.
He CARVED a face into the door with a screwdriver. Its not a scratch, it wasnt an accident. The trip is in 3 weeks he is old enough to relate the punishment to the crime, he is 13 not 3.
However not taking him away while taking the rest of the family will cause more problems than it solves.
I would cancel the trip entirely and tell the children you cannot afford both it and the repairs to the car. And do something either for just yourself and your husband or an extremely scaled back weekend away with everybody.

I wouldn't heap on additional punishments. You've made a stand re paying for it, just be consistent with that and be business like about it.

I might be straying into dangerous territory her but does he get to spend time with his dad doing father son stuff? This new baby may be unsettling for him and he could feel like he's being pushed out. My adult son has told me about his feelings as a young teenager recently and I was gobsmacked! He thought it should have been obvious to me that he was going though a very tough time and acting out. I didn't have a clue. I thought he was just being a git who despised me. May be unhelpful but the car incident does appear extreme. Whatever you do hope this gets better for you all. 13 is a bloody awful age!!

Oh and please please don't cancel the holiday and broadcast that it's his fault. He has a good relationship with his sibling he may worry that the new baby will replace him in their affections