LGBT+ at summer camp?

[TreeSqueak]

My dc are at a summer camp this week. It's a day camp run by a youth movement. The leaders are aged from 17/18 to mid-20s, the children 6-11. I can't fault the care, my dc have come home every day burbling with happiness, exhausted, loving the leaders and the activities.

Every day has a different theme. Yesterday it was LGBT+. I noticed the flags and facepaint when I dropped them off.

Dc told me last night that they had learned about every letter, what each one meant, including that you may not be the sex that you look like, how people were different and should change if they wanted to, and we should love and respect everyone, etc etc etc.

AIBU that this is not an appropriate theme for the setting?

catgirl1976 - I've been told that Carter Ruck can offer no win/no fee options by someone who has worked with them.

I would be upset if I attended an LGBT or Pride themed event that ignored and erased the existence of trans people, but that's just me

You are aware that the "LGBT movement" is ignoring and erasing lesbians?

I don't think it's a bad thing your child has described what was explained to them seems age appropriate and as you say you noticed stuff when dropping off so could have asked questions then and removed children if you didn't agree.

Children are taught this in many schools also.

I think it's good they are taught from an early age many children and young people suffer serious mental health issues throughout their childhood due to sexuality and gender issues and how they manage those in today's society, we need to be more understanding and accepting and teach our children from a young age it's ok to be who you want to be/feel you are and I think your child's understanding of what they learnt today is bloody amazing and you should be proud of them

Kids are more likely to experience parental divorce, bereavement, eating or weight issues, cancer, body size issues or bullying than be trans - whatever that actually means these days.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

As a lesbian, I have my own nuanced and complex views about my place in the LGBT community and understand the grievances of others, yeah.

Save your powder folks, this sounds like nothing more sinister than an information session so unless there's a heck of a lot more than the OP is saying you're all looking daft as fuck with the "TRAs are grooming our children" angle.

I used to be like you, I could have made this comment in the past. Things are being pushed on kids, though, and it's pretty unrelenting. It's such a confusing world for young people already, some of the effects this is having now, especially in deprived communities are pretty tragic.

I made the point on LGBT people not necessarily wanting to expose young kids to anything but the very basics because that's what my experience reflects, and I feel that the backlash some people have toward the wider communities is ill-placed.

@AsAProfessionalFekko "Okay kids, it's statistically more likely you'll be killed by a coconut than a shark, so for today's Beach Safety Awareness day we're going to focus on our "looking upwards" skills!!"

You can teach them about all of those things! It's possible!

That's interesting Alaaya - if they've done a no win no fee they must be confident JB has a good case.

The examples I have are pretty everyday though. No sharks involved (although a couple of young people were bitten by sharks near new york recently).

Children need to learn about resilience, who to trust/go to for help, and how to deal with crap and stress that happens on their lives. Why don't they teach coping strategies - we all need this!

catgirl1976 - maybe. My personal suspicion is that PCR sometimes just go for high profile cases so they can get their name in the paper - they do feed on publicity, after all. I presume they think there is a case, but I don't know anything for sure beyond what I've seen online.

Mmm good point. Maybe the publicity is worth it or maybe JB does have a good case. Like you I only know what I've read on line and I try not to believe everything I read on twitter. I guess the courts will decide on that one. Had a google and they do sometimes do no win no fee " where the merits permit and where the other party will be able to meet any order for costs and damages that might be made against them at the end of the case"

TBH, if it was done in an age appropriate way, I wouldn't have an issue with it. I would see it as an ideal opportunity to further discuss such topics with my DC, although, knowing them, they would probably make a passing comment about what they had done during the day, and then be begging to go on Fortnite.

To me, that's what's it should be about, that LGBT+ topics are normalised, part of every day life, and not "huge issues". That everyone should be loved and respected should be a given. I am not naive enough to believe that we are at that point, but I hope that we are a good part of the way there.

Shame they can't represent someone, say wrongly imprisoned abroad or sentenced to death abroad on human rights grounds?

But a common or garden flasher? Would they represent me if I decided to take a load of money shots and pollution the Internet with them? I suspect not (they might represent humanity and good taste and sue me to take them down).

So sad that even organisations like this feel fine about totally lying about people being able to change sex. It's beyond cruel.

I'd find another camp if possible op

No issue for me. I actually quite like having kind, accepting and respectful children.

If your daughter comes home saying she wants to cut off her breasts you might have another opinion Pinky

I like having kind, accepting and respectful children as well. All those things can be achieved without lying to them though.

I work in safeguarding in schools and I can’t see how having a theme around sexuality/sexual identity is in any way appropriate for a summer camp session for kids aged 6-11.

Sex and relationships is a really important topic and needs to be taught properly in an appropriate way, by trained professionals.

They should have your informed consent for anything educational relating to sexuality or transgenderism. Schools have to. So should they

Noeffingidea I don’t place caveats on which group of people my children should be kind to, especially when it’s based on a protected characteristic, they have a name for folk like that.

They have a name for people who throw other people under the bus so that they can advertise their wokeness too.

When you see the pictures of the girls with mastectomies, you can know that your wokeness contributed to it. If left be, most of them would just turn out to be lesbian

AsAProfessionalFekko - they do international law as well. Their web site says they acted for Al Jazeera in its Bilateral Investment Treaty claim in respect of the campaign mounted against it by the Egyptian government since the coup in July 2013; led an international inquiry team mandated to investigate the credibility of photographs and other evidence relating to the torture and murder of prisoners by the Syrian regime; assembled and managed a multi-jurisdictional team investigating the circumstances surrounding the death of Yasser Arafat.

I suspect they do a lot of work, some to get publicity (so probably representing some random flasher online wouldn't be their bag, high profile would be), some for ethical reasons (the Syria stuff sounds like that), some to pay the bills. Like most law firms do.

For what it's worth, btw, I'm not a fan of anyone who posts 'flasher' pics online at all. I just don't see a grand conspiracy in a high profile individual with a massive and public law suit getting a law firm like that involved and can see why they would take it pro bono for no reason other than 'that gets us attention, which gets us the clients who pay the bills, which lets us afford to work on the international human rights cases we want to do'.

I think that's how a lot of this stuff rolls.

LGB is sexual orientation. It’s innate, it’s inbuilt, it’s part of every culture there is (although of course the ability to actually openly be gay or bi has varied massively over time.) I have zero issue with kids being taught about sexual orientation in an age appropriate manner. All fine. Crack on.

T is a different thing. It doesn’t really belong with the LGB at all. It’s NOT a sexual orientation.

If someone told my child they could change sex I would be pissed off. you cannot change sex. not only that it reinforces all the shitty narrow stereotypes that we have been trying to break down for years - girls and boys can play with any toys they want and dress however they want. A boy dressing in a dress is a boy in a dress. He’s not a girl. There has been a huge increase in presentations to gender clinics - mainly girls. A lot of these girls have ASD and/or would just be gay. They are reacting to the awful hyper sexualised society we have. To be told there is something wrong with them and that they are actually straight boys - that’s homophobia 101.

There is a push to medicalise children as soon as possible - puberty blockers are pushed. These drugs are horrific and have effects like osteoporosis, cognitive damage equivalent to 8-10 IQ points, infertility, joint damage, metabolic damage. They are a one way street to major surgery. That’s not OK.

Right. Now the worst bit.

The people who are training schools and the NHS and the police? They are advocating for things that actively go against safeguarding. things like confidential disclosure, parental alienation. This is a disaster waiting to happen. Children on girl guide camps are told that if they object to sharing showers with Male bodies people they are the issue and should leave. Parents are actively not told if someone of the opposite sex is sharing tents/showers etc with girls. Note that this is NOT what the scouts (who run camps with both sexes do.)

The secrecy, the attempts to erode safeguarding are deeply worrying. One lobbier connected to these advisory groups has just been suspended for allegedly flashing in public with (allegedly) a blog full of rape porn, incest porn and sexual pictures of minors.

This is not benign. This is actively eroding safeguarding. Every single one of those safeguarding practices was put in place after the abuse/death of real children.

I’m sure they were just being ‘woke’ and inclusive but the piggybacking of the T onto the LGB is deeply worrying.

I dont give a toss about being woke. I’ve been a lifelong supporter of gay rights. I’m deeply worried about what some factions of radical transactivists are pushing because it is NOT good for children.

LGBTQ+ in schools is completely fine and I support it - but it’s delivered by qualified teachers and in an appropriate way for each key stage.

A bunch of teens at a summer camp, looking after primary school kids shouldn’t be mentioning sex AT ALL. Not even boring old cishet married missionary position with the light off sex.

Seriously, this is how grooming happens. I’m sure that these teens and young adults are absolutely fine but there is now so much child porn on the internet and so many people viewing it that the government don’t have the resources to do anything much about it. Predators are out there.
Any kind of sex chat between kids and adults risks normalising it, and that makes safeguarding kids harder.

I have no problem with LGBT stuff being taught alongside other sex Ed stuff, that is right and proper, but it should be delivered by qualified and trusted adults and home should be made aware of the content so they can follow up any questions the kids might have when they get home.

I don’t place caveats on which group of people my children should be kind to, especially when it’s based on a protected characteristic, they have a name for folk like that.

Sex is a protected characteristic
Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic.

Gender identity is not.

But anyway. This isn’t about being kind. It’s about child safeguarding. Predators will abuse any loophole they can. What transactivists want will create loopholes.

And predators (note: I’m not talking about transgender people, I’m talking about predators - generally men, and generally not trans) will use those loopholes.

If they get confidential disclosure through, that’s a huge loophole. It’s an abusers charter. Again, I’m NOT saying transpeople will be exploiting this - I’m saying that predators will. And they will. They always do.

No group who want to reduce child safeguarding should be allowed to do so. I don’t care if their motives are kind, happy and full of sparkles - I care about the loopholes it will create.