LGBT+ at summer camp?

[TreeSqueak]

My dc are at a summer camp this week. It's a day camp run by a youth movement. The leaders are aged from 17/18 to mid-20s, the children 6-11. I can't fault the care, my dc have come home every day burbling with happiness, exhausted, loving the leaders and the activities.

Every day has a different theme. Yesterday it was LGBT+. I noticed the flags and facepaint when I dropped them off.

Dc told me last night that they had learned about every letter, what each one meant, including that you may not be the sex that you look like, how people were different and should change if they wanted to, and we should love and respect everyone, etc etc etc.

AIBU that this is not an appropriate theme for the setting?

This thread proves that even adults struggle with defining / understanding these issues - transgender specifically - how is a 6 year old meant to understand.

And without permission from parents.

In a religious camp setting where they actually don't agree with this in their religion do they?
(Where some people may actually teach tolerance of these things but not acceptance iyswim).

It can be very confusing for them so young and yes I would be very angry with the camp.

The whole idea of this 'camp' sounds dodgy and with silence from the OP apart from a notion of 'religious; it gets dodgier.

*But yeah totally inappropriate activity for children. These things should be done at school and home etc. Not for a bunch of (assuming) unqualified, unrelated late teens/early adults, to be teaching.

A session on equality, or family, or diversity sounds good. Making rainbow people, drawing their own families, talking about differences, different cultures etc would be more appropriate. I'm intrigued how much they talked about non-trans stuff.*

Exactly.

And don't get too spooked, Yvaine1, nothing dodgy about either the religion (completely mainstream, people of all sexual orientations in our community) or the camp, just yesterday's session. And nothing dodgy about stepping away from the laptop to get on with RL, either.

"the aggressive trans-financed sector"

Imagine actually believing in this.

Kudos to a religious organisation for embracing diversity and promoting tolerance

Witchita

Encouraging secrecy, 'confidences' with the child, without the parent's knowledge, isolation from parents, all point to a grooming process: indoctrination of this ideology. Parents are not allowed to question it, if indeed they are informed and 'plans' are made where the parent does question it.

Alsaya Also, are you really complaining that "we should love and respect everyone" is not an appropriate message for children to hear? There are people who don't deserve love and respect, and so the message is inappropriate - think about it!

Goodness, this is an old form of bigotry you don't see around much these days.

It is absolutely disgusting to equate learning about LGBT with learning about BDSM, dogging and masturbation. The latter three things are specific sexual practices and clearly not suitable topics for children. Being LGBT isn't a sexual practice - it's an aspect of your identity. Kids know that relationships happen - you aren't hiding the existence of heterosexual couples from them in fear that it is an inappropriate sexual topic, so why do you feel differently about the LGBT community?

Ah, the instant 'bigot' accusation.

If they're only telling them about the fact that same-sex couples exist (which they probably already know anyway), that fact doesn't indeed relate to a 'sexual practice' as far as it needs to concern them, so why ever do they need a full day or course to examine it? What are they taking the time to discuss?

As a PP said, if you tell kids that this [same sex] person is my life partner/wifet etc, they'll often just say, "Oh, OK then" - and if they say they didn't know that a woman could have a female partner or a wife, it will be easily answered with "Yes, an adult can form a partnership or marry almost any other adult, regardless of their sex". Most kids couldn't care less (possibly beyond an initial childish giggle of unfamiliarity that is quickly countered).

To most kids, it would be the same as introducing another child by saying "Lucy, this is Michelle" and then, instead of just letting Lucy take a second to say "Hi, Michelle" somehow feeling the need to have a discussion or workshop themed around the way that people can be called Lucy, Michelle, Timothy, Claire, Bradley whatever. Labouring a point that they instantly accept is just unnecessary and might make them question why you feel the need to do it.

I don't see the need to take any time to discuss 'sexual practices' with any children of this age. Yes, being LGBT (or indeed straight) is part of your identity, as with other basic, easily-graspable facts such as your name or sex, but they do not need any further details at their age of how this may be expressed between adults.

In the same way, you might say to children "This is Natalie and she's a police officer" and her job would likely also be part of her identity, but you wouldn't dream of then starting to give them child-inappropriate details of the gruesome murder that she had to attend to the previous night.

I used to teach children those ages, and while I wouldn't voluntarily make a lesson about LGBTQ+ it has happened that the subject came up naturally from the children themselves and in this case I try to answer as factually as possible.

For example I remember a 6yo little boy I used to teach randomly stating he wanted to marry another boy one day and immediately another little girl interjected to say "he couldn't do that because boys are supposed to marry girls" so the little boy got really crossed with her and retorted that of course he could and then asked me confirmation that he could marry a boy.

So I naturally answered his question and said that yes, in the country we were he could either marry a man or a woman later on but that unfortunately it wasn't legal everywhere in the world but that I personally thought everyone should marry whoever they want to marry.

I didn't mention this conversation with his parents, and it's well possible the little girl told her parents about it. It wouldn't even register with me to notify the parents that we talked for a minute about gay mariage and the fact that it's legal.

The topic of trans people never came about but if a student had asked about it, I would also have explained that some people suffer from dysphoria and are unhappy with their body because they feel they aren't born in the right body and some take steps in order to change it so that they appear more like the person they feel inside and that may also involve changing their name and pronouns.

Like I said, I wouldn't have started the topic myself but if it's something they bring up and want to talk and learn about, I have no problem answering those questions. I am not straight and I wish the sex ed classes I had from the age of 10 onwards had involved talking about the LGBTQ+ community, it would have made those classes much more relatable and probably would have stopped years of self-inflicted homophobia feeling a bit like a freak. Some of those children, might grow to be gay or trans but live in very close-minded environments where being out could prejudice them so I think it's great that some safe spaces are created where children can ask questions or talk about their own feelings wihout necessarily the parents finding out though I don't know if a summer camp is the right place for this and think this type of safe place should have to be controlled so no definite label is pushed onto a child etc...

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with what happened at the camp but you may want to have a deeper chat with your children, to see if they have questions and maybe talk about the topic again in a way you see fit. You can always say " some people say trans people can change sex but actually you can't change sex, what they mean is gender" or whatever you feel like explaining to him.

What a depressing thread.

All these TRAs , , just shut up and wind your necks in .

We don't ALL have to have it pushed down our damn throats and certainly not at a camp, run for children , and not without parental awareness beforehand.

You people . .. Honestly.

And Yes, just exercised MY freedom of expression as well .. Still allowed is it ?

Everyones Rights but the Straight people .!

I was wondering how long until someone argued that straight people are oppressed 😂😂

I suppose at least there's a refreshing honesty in scaryteacher saying flat out that LGBT people don't deserve love or respect. Kind of makes it clear where the objections to this stuff is coming from.

Yy Alaaya. And the "don't ram it down our throats" hooey. And the children will catch it!

Beats me how anyone can be so blinkered as to not see the echoes of homophobia there.

My bet is that all the woke fuckers who talk about inclusiveness will be running for the hills

I hope these people are having fun virtue signalling now, because history will take a dim view of this I'm sure.

Enjoy the party folks, when this shit comes for the kids in your family with the CATASTROPHIC damage it can do their lives, you might just change your minds.

I'll say one more thing, I grew up in a community full of gay people and the occasional trans person and not one, NOT ONE of them ever wanted to do anything like this. Good people of all sexualities want to protect children and their innocence in my experience, which makes this whole grooming of a generation by "activists" fucking baffling. It doesn't map to actual LGBT people I know in any way, shape or form.

I'm sure children that age know that same sex relationships exist - I certainly did at primary school, and I remember a book at school called something like 'bill has 2 dads'. This was in the early right on 1970s and it was something we rolled our eyes at 'well d'uuuuuuh, we know about gay people...'

Love and respect is a great message - and I suppose the trend is sexuality. Why not learn about people from different cultures, people with disabilities, helping the elderly, being a good citizen, raising funds for charities, looking after the environment, how children live around the world, what makes a family... Or skills they can use at home?

Explaining the whole LGBT... It can't really be done without explaining sexuality and some pretty deep concepts around gender, relationships and sex. It's not just waving a rainbow flag and declaring that boys can be girls and girls can be boys and that all OK.

Many of these children will be too young to learn about this in any depth and who will answer the inevitable questions and how?

"Do something like this"

Like what? Explaining a bit about what the T in LGBT means and encouraging tolerance love and respect? Cos that's what's the OP I say describing as happening.

Save your powder folks, this sounds like nothing more sinister than an information session so unless there's a heck of a lot more than the OP is saying you're all looking daft as fuck with the "TRAs are grooming our children" angle.

Not grooming accusations, no hysteria. But why is sexuality an appropriate topic for a young kids summer camp?

I would be happy with an explanation of what each letter stood for, if a little surprised this warranted a full days theme at a summer camp for young children. I'd be delighted with the message that we should love and respect everyone.

However I would be furious if my child was told bunkum like "you may not be the sex you look like" and that it was possible to change sex.

If you don't think TRA's are well funded perhaps you can tell me how someone on £24k a year can afford to hire Carter Ruck to defend them when they are allegedly caught flashing in public and with images of child abuse on their pc. I am pretty sure CR don't do freebies.

This may well be a well meaning but misguided bunch of happy clappy 18 year olds trying to give a message of inclusivity rather than anything more sinister but I would still not be happy with my child being told things which not be true. I'd feel the same if they were telling him evolution didn't exist or that the earth was flat.

Some of these kids will be gay, yknow. Not just like, in the hypothetical mysterious future, but right now. It's important for them to understand about different sexualities/spectrums of attraction/different ways of fancying people. I would be upset if I attended an LGBT or Pride themed event that ignored and erased the existence of trans people, but that's just me. I believe some of these kids will be trans too, but probably won't realise until they're a little older - but providing them with the information now should help stop them from panicking and getting worried when they do realise.

If you fundamentally disagree with the existence of trans people or the promotion of information about transsexuality then of course you're going to disagree with this incident. But there really wasn't any harm done. If you dont believe in what they taught your kids, then teach your kids something else. They'll either believe you for the rest of their lives or find alternative views out there as they get older, one day at summer camp really isn't going to have swayed the likelihoods in favour of either option.

It seems sad that the way trans issues have been dealt with is now making parents feel less comfortable about their kids being taught about LBG (and I'm not having a go at either the parents or trans people as a whole when I say this). It doesn't sound like anything at this camp would be likely to give a child a false idea of their gender identity, but I would feel these days that I would want to check what was said to my kids about gender identity to check they have understood it correctly, esp as I have a tween daughter who I guess would be classed as gender non-conforming, but who is perfectly sure she's a girl.