LGBT+ at summer camp?

[TreeSqueak]

My dc are at a summer camp this week. It's a day camp run by a youth movement. The leaders are aged from 17/18 to mid-20s, the children 6-11. I can't fault the care, my dc have come home every day burbling with happiness, exhausted, loving the leaders and the activities.

Every day has a different theme. Yesterday it was LGBT+. I noticed the flags and facepaint when I dropped them off.

Dc told me last night that they had learned about every letter, what each one meant, including that you may not be the sex that you look like, how people were different and should change if they wanted to, and we should love and respect everyone, etc etc etc.

AIBU that this is not an appropriate theme for the setting?

Seems a bit much for such young children.

I always thought such things would be discussed when kids asked about them and not at a summer camp for goodness sake.

They're talking about putting the idea into children's heads that it's possible to actually change sex without quantifying that they'll have to have extreme painful surgery and/or take damaging medication in order to do so.. I need to add to this and even then they won't actually have changed sex

Bizzy he's actually my son. Bumpy actually, he likes pink and glitter and wore a tiara last night, so according to some here I'll be marching him to a gender reassignment clinic immediately. It's not possible to reject gender stereotypes and support trans people, after all.

I'll just check my "special friend" agrees

*But actually

I'd have no problems with what they discussed tbh. The more exposure kids have the more it won't be seen as weird or unusual.

The children are aged 6-11. How about choosing themes actually appropriate to what their age group?

IF it's appropriate to organise activities based around ANY form of sexuality and sexual attraction for children of this age, will they be doing other workshops teaching them about dogging, BDSM and showing them porn? If they spoke to them about masturbation, there would be an outcry (and rightly so, unless parents were clearly warned beforehand) - even though that might be an issue appropriate to the lives of some of the older ones in the way that sexual attraction and interaction with a second person of ANY kind would not.

If, has has been suggested, the LGB part has just been used as a catch-all to hide their true agenda, why don't they just advertise it as a kids' trans-education camp and let parents decide whether or not to send their kids? Why be so underhanded about it?

I too would want to check out who is behind the organising (and possibly funding) these camps. If they do have an agenda, they should at least be upfront about it and tell parents what they'll be discussing, to give them the opportunity to decide whether or not to send their kids. I'm guessing they'd still have plenty of last-minute vacancies....

TBH I have no issue with children being told/made aware that some individuals for whatever reasons aren't happy with their biological sex so want to be referred to as the opposite and may dress or do things that are more stereotypical of that gender. But that just because a boy likes dresses or a girl like trucks doesn't mean they are should be the opposite or that there is anything 'wrong' with that either.

I'd also like children to be told that not everyone is interested in sexual relationships, not everyone is born as being purely boy or girl (intersex) and that some people are gay, straight, bi or simply not sure. There is nothing wrong with any of these, they are all as valid as one another.

My biggest issue is that LGBQA is about sexuality. I'm never understood why trans or intersex comes into it.

I don't mind if someone wants to be referred to as a man/woman/dolphin/horse/unicorn, just like it doesn't make any difference to me if someone is Christian/Muslim/Hindu or where they are from, what skin colour or anything else they have. I just don't want people pushing their agenda onto others, I don't want to be religious, I don't want to attend marches, I just want everyone to get on with their thing without hurting anyone else. Until that happens I'll fight my corner.

I think the theme is perfectly acceptable. For me the question would be about the delivery of it, and any slant on it.

If it was purely explaining what each letter stands for, and giving it a definition, then I can't see an issue with that.

Anyone who thinks kids are too young to hear this is living in cuckoo land. Kids talk, they discuss. What one experiences, tends to get shared with their peers. Far better to explain these things to kids in a matter of fact way, and give them a chance to ask questions - let them get the correct information, rather than what the grapevine says, which may not be right.

I'd think this would be a good opportunity for the OP to have a chat with her own children, see if they understand, or have any questions.

Kids hear about sex, and being gay/lesbian/bi/trans, etc - better that we keep the communication channels open and give them the right info. Kids are also very accepting. We have a family member who has a different sexuality, and my DD has never known anything else. It wasn't overly discussed when she was small, she just knew she had two of them rather than one. As she got older, we explained that they were life partners, and she pretty much just said ok, then carried on playing. No big deal. We've chatted about it all - as it happens, I'm pretty sure my DD is heterosexual, and she thinks she is too - but I've made it clear to her that it's ok to be anything, and that whatever her choices, I'll support her.

Oh for Christ's sake. "Don't mention the T in front of children in case they're infected by the trans". Absolutely batshit.

But yeah totally inappropriate activity for children. These things should be done at school and home etc. Not for a bunch of (assuming) unqualified, unrelated late teens/early adults, to be teaching.

A session on equality, or family, or diversity sounds good. Making rainbow people, drawing their own families, talking about differences, different cultures etc would be more appropriate. I'm intrigued how much they talked about non-trans stuff.

I would be thrilled that they were teaching DC about inclusivity and diversity within a religious framework. Too may religions (including my own) are intolerant and unaccepting of LGBTQ

The TRAs here are obv getting short order FO in FWR so, as a significant social media platform the other tactic is to try AIBU as a toe-in

Conspiracy theory? Seem like an over reaction to some posters shrugging their shoulders and saying they're ok with it.

Thanks fuck the GC feminist agenda is mostly confined to the feminist board. Bad enough that's been so taken over that it's like gang turf in there, with all the moderate voices driven out.

Meanwhile in the rest of mn tolerance and inclusivity continue to be considered a good thing. Hooray!

Rock on pride parades and kids camps who talk about these things. My kids learned about trans from about age 4, and don't seem to have been converted or turned trans by that knowledge.

I would be absolutely OK with all of it except that people may not be the sex they look like or that you can change that. This should have been a perfect opportunity to learn about all the letters and how T people can feel more comfortable looking and behaving in ways that people USED to think were just for one sex. An opportunity to break down stereotypes instead of reinforcing them

This would be the absolute ideal, I think.

However, given the ages of the leaders, I'm not surprised the more black and white approach was taken. I wouldn't be especially bothered but I would be clarifying with my children that they can't literally change sex.

Coldilox sorry! I should read more carefully! or maybe I deliberately misgendered him because I am part of a secret TRA cabal trying to corrupt your children

I'd be very interested how acceptable to the modern activists a camp or training session would be that celebrated the spectrum of likes/dislikes and behaviours within both genders.

Or is telling kids that you look like a girl, have a female body and very much ARE a girl - just one who happens to prefer some things that narrow-minded people have decided should be reserved solely for boys and thus denied to you unless you renounce your femaleness and cease to do any traditionally 'feminine' things that you DO like and claim to actually be a boy - and vice versa - some kind of bizarre hate crime these days?

This.
Telling children they can "change their sex" if they want to is a lie.

A dangerous lie that could destroy their lives.

I have seen this in a British child. Mum was a tomboy, grandma was a tomboy, both lovely, mostly fun childhoods and grew up happy women/loving mothers, daughter very much alike has basically had this shoved on them relentlessly and is now halfway to MH because they have been convinced preferring boys' clothes and company as a kid means every fucking cell in their body is probably wrong and that they probably need to get surgically altered, take hormones etc and really not wanting to is "probably denial".

IF it's appropriate to organise activities based around ANY form of sexuality and sexual attraction for children of this age, will they be doing other workshops teaching them about dogging, BDSM and showing them porn? If they spoke to them about masturbation, there would be an outcry (and rightly so, unless parents were clearly warned beforehand) - even though that might be an issue appropriate to the lives of some of the older ones in the way that sexual attraction and interaction with a second person of ANY kind would not.

Goodness, this is an old form of bigotry you don't see around much these days.

It is absolutely disgusting to equate learning about LGBT with learning about BDSM, dogging and masturbation. The latter three things are specific sexual practices and clearly not suitable topics for children. Being LGBT isn't a sexual practice - it's an aspect of your identity. Kids know that relationships happen - you aren't hiding the existence of heterosexual couples from them in fear that it is an inappropriate sexual topic, so why do you feel differently about the LGBT community?

It does seem odd that they chose to cover this topic at a summer day camp , and in particular for that age group. However I would be ok with most of it, though obviously not the stuff about being able to change sex. If ds came home and asked me about that particular point I would have to explain that he was born with a Y chromosome and that cant be removed.

"Oh for Christ's sake. "Don't mention the T in front of children in case they're infected by the trans". Absolutely batshit."

What this fails to understand is that many women on here remember being young and how they and their friends felt about their bodies, the expectations around behaviour, personality and dress etc. Many were GNC and hated what happened around the start of puberty and it was not uncommon to try and make it all stop by various sometimes extreme means.

We don't look at this as "outsiders" we think, if this had been an option when I was young I might have taken it... and then what.

We are WORRIED, for our children, not expressing hatred for adult trans people.

But, this is known.

What's wrong with masturbation? Why in the same category as bdsm and dogging?
I think children should learn about masturbation in an age appropriate way, especially girls. Girls for too long have been kept in the dark about their own sexual pleasure, everything is about male orgasm.

Or is telling kids that you look like a girl, have a female body and very much ARE a girl - just one who happens to prefer some things that narrow-minded people have decided should be reserved solely for boys and thus denied to you unless you renounce your femaleness and cease to do any traditionally 'feminine' things that you DO like and claim to actually be a boy - and vice versa

If you think that's what trans is you probably need educating, really a lot.

It is actually possible to think that limiting people's activities by their gender is wrong without being totally obstructive, obtuse and rude about trans people.

I'm annoyed that "gender critical" has now become so strongly associated with people who cannot manage to be civil about things they'd cant or won't understand or accept. It was to me when I found there was a name for how I feel about gender bullshit, but now I can't use it because it's a byword for an attitude I want nothing to do with.

Not in my name.

It's a good age to talk about these things but it sounds like it was talked about in the wrong way in the wrong place. You should have been made fully aware beforehand aswell

Braveandstunning, what exactly sort of grooming do you think? "This looks like grooming to me". There are quite a few different interpretations to that and I don't want to assume you mean something you don't.

Too young to understand properly and I'd want to explain this properly and fully to my own children, not by strangers without proper childcare qualifications!