LGBT+ at summer camp?

[TreeSqueak]

My dc are at a summer camp this week. It's a day camp run by a youth movement. The leaders are aged from 17/18 to mid-20s, the children 6-11. I can't fault the care, my dc have come home every day burbling with happiness, exhausted, loving the leaders and the activities.

Every day has a different theme. Yesterday it was LGBT+. I noticed the flags and facepaint when I dropped them off.

Dc told me last night that they had learned about every letter, what each one meant, including that you may not be the sex that you look like, how people were different and should change if they wanted to, and we should love and respect everyone, etc etc etc.

AIBU that this is not an appropriate theme for the setting?

"material such as this you may not be the sex that you look like, how people were different and should change if they wanted to is fucking dangerous. You cannot change sex. The lesson should have been about tolerance, not biological inaccuracies."

This.
Telling children they can "change their sex" if they want to is a lie.

I think that sounds great, honestly. My dd is 5 and we certainly talk about those issues with her in age appropriate ways. And how lovely that a religious organisation is tackling these issues head on instead of pretending they don't exist (which has been pretty much the standard throughout history of most religious movements). But beyond that, you sent your dc to this entirely optional summer camp. If you aren't comfortable with it, you should have read the curriculum descriptions a bit better and chosen somewhere that was a better fit for what you were looking for.

Children of those ages do NOT need to know about any sexuality. The younger ones do not need to know anything at all about sex yet. I believe it is the parents who should tell their kids about such things, not teachers, and definitely not some summer camp leaders.

The T+ bit though, absolutely not. Too young, you impressionable, and more importantly it's something that I as their parent will discuss with them as and when I see fit, in a manner that I believe to be appropriate to their age and understanding.

A section 28 by any other name would smell as sweet...

Don't pat yourself on the back because you're willing to tolerate LGB if you won't tolerate T. From what OP's said it can hardly be surmised that they've been having detailed chats about hormones, surgery and self-ID, or a detailed breakdown of the difference between sex and gender. They're literally explaining that trans people exist and that we should be loving and tolerant of them, in a way that kids can understand.

The sooner people stop acting like trans is a dirty word and start realising that they're perpetrating the same phobias they would condemn if directed against LGB people the better the world will be.

okay - this looks quite like a TRA pile-in.

Nothing against MN guidelines but something posters should be aware of.

Nothing against MN guidelines but something posters should be aware of.

Here be dragons...

No dragons. Just tiresome rhetoric.

But thanks for confirming the suspicion.

Is this YMCA daycamps by any chance?

Loving the idea that they've been infiltrated by TRAs

Telling children people can change their Dec is not a lie. Legally, people can change their sex

You sound like a DM reader spouting about how marriage is between one man and one woman. That might be your opinion but the law says you are wrong.

Sounds like a lovely camp.

(Am not a TRA. Not a T even, just an L)

I would be absolutely OK with all of it except that people may not be the sex they look like or that you can change that. This should have been a perfect opportunity to learn about all the letters and how T people can feel more comfortable looking and behaving in ways that people USED to think were just for one sex. An opportunity to break down stereotypes instead of reinforcing them.

Yes I'd have been immensely pissed off. No problem with this being taught at school and discussed at home but definitely not something for a holiday camp and parents should have been informed first. I'd definitely say something. Small children of 6/7/8 are too young for this in my view.

Oh dear gods, a summer camp telling children to be nice to each other and accept that we are all different! How traumatic

Wtaf! No wonder kids are so messed up these days. Who the hell thought this was an ok topic for 6 year olds? Telling a six year old boy they can become a six year old girl is fucked up. I’d withdraw the children, demand a refund. Just as amatter of interest what other topics did they cover?

Lynne1cat Is my four year old too young to know that he has two mums? Shit, I didn't realise...

Some parents would probably use this as a good opportunity to talk with their kids about how acceptance of others should also include skin colour, religion, physical and mental differences..... Or would the OP and certain others prefer it if we only acknowledged white middle-class straight people with no religious beliefs and who have no needs other than to maximise their time on social media?

I don't see the issue. My DD aged 7 knows LGBT people exist. She has had friends with 2 mums and/or 2 dads. Children see nothing wrong with these relationships or family set ups, unless they have been taught to be prejudiced. I think very few 7 year olds nowadays are ignorant of the existence of LGB relationships.

I'm guessing that people have an objection to the T element. I really do not get this Mumsnet obsession around trans people. Live and let live.

Well, yes to all of that re messing up our childrens thinking and feelings about themselves.

The TRAs here are obv getting short order FO in FWR so, as a significant social media platform the other tactic is to try AIBU as a toe-in on MN.

You've been identified as TRAs, with no concern about childen's welfare.

Coldilox

Your daughter should be at least 18 before she learns a dirty word like LGBT. Until then you and your partner are strictly 'gal pals' or, in a more formal setting, 'companions'.

You've been identified as TRAs, with no concern about childen's welfare.

Do you think that if you repeat vague hyperboles enough they'll eventually come true?

Personally I think that is terrible at that age. I think things like that should be down to the parents to explain. And certainly not appropriate for a kids camp. They should have at least given you the option/let you know.

*Coldilox' 'special friend' is good too!

No one is talking about not accepting lesbian and gay people. They're talking about putting the idea into children's heads that it's possible to actually change sex without quantifying that they'll have to have extreme painful surgery and/or take damaging medication in order to do so. This bleating and asserting that people who don't agree with doing this are bigoted and homo/trans phobic is utter nonsense and does what it is designed to do shut people up and make them too scared to challenge this frankly terrifying fiction.

My children have been brought up to believe that they and their friends may have husbands or wives one day no matter what sex they are. Whenever I talk about relationships I switch between the two so that know that is utterly acceptable. What I don't do is say "hey kids, one day you can be a man/woman but you'll have to lop off your breasts/penis to do it and that's just FINE" and I won't have other people saying it either.

younger children take it literally. Some not so young as well.

They don't take it that there is a mechanism by which they can change their legal sex.

They take it that they can literally change their biological sex (somehow) and that everything will be fully functional. They believe what they are told. Obviously. But it's a lie.

Yes Holly - the camp needs enquiring into as to what exactly they are saying to children.

My children have been brought up to believe that they and their friends may have husbands or wives one day no matter what sex they are. Whenever I talk about relationships I switch between the two so that know that is utterly acceptable. What I don't do is say "hey kids, one day you can be a man/woman but you'll have to lop off your breasts/penis to do it and that's just FINE" and I won't have other people saying it either.

Yep!

Sounds like a great camp to me, and your kids seem to be having a wonderful time. It's nice to hear that a religious group is being so inclusive and active re LGBT.

If you're feeling like you would have liked to have notice that this activity wasn't planned then by all means give the organisers some constructive feedback along those lines.

If you're concerned that your children have got the wrong end of the stick on certain aspects then answer their questions or give them your preferred viewpoint in an age appropriate way.