LGBT+ at summer camp?

[TreeSqueak]

My dc are at a summer camp this week. It's a day camp run by a youth movement. The leaders are aged from 17/18 to mid-20s, the children 6-11. I can't fault the care, my dc have come home every day burbling with happiness, exhausted, loving the leaders and the activities.

Every day has a different theme. Yesterday it was LGBT+. I noticed the flags and facepaint when I dropped them off.

Dc told me last night that they had learned about every letter, what each one meant, including that you may not be the sex that you look like, how people were different and should change if they wanted to, and we should love and respect everyone, etc etc etc.

AIBU that this is not an appropriate theme for the setting?

Here's an example of a lovely, well-meaning organisation for children (Girl Guides) bringing in a change in rules and thereby supporting a philosophy, without telling parents, and that has implications for the safeguarding of children.

It's very short - a one-page factsheet

fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/FPFW_Girlguides_factsheet.pdf

(It wasn't a real cat in my recreation - the original cat was a docile creature called Maynard)

.... and furthermore, Girl Guides have refused to discuss this and threatened concerned Leaders with expulsion.

Yes thank you Rat and I correct them when they come home with shit from school. Huge oversimplification is not the same thing as telling children outright lies, like it's possible to change sex. Or become a unicorn

I’m so confused. Why is this an issue? You are given the opportunity to withdraw from lessons like this at school? Why would you want to? Similarly why would you wish to withdraw your child from a lesson like this at summer camp? It’s a part of life and learning tolerance, respect and acceptance at a young age should be too. I really don’t get why you think it’s inappropriate. The kids enjoyed it and learned a little something. I think you’re being overprotective and shielding them from something you really don’t need to shield them from.

Friend of mine’s little lad has worn all the princess frocks his big sister refuses to for about three years now. He’s just starting to decide he is in fact a boy.

Has he not, in fact, been aware of being a boy all along?

It's true that it's much easier for a girl to decide to wear 'boy clothes' than vice versa.
A parent will likely happily buy only trousers and shorts for a girl, if that's what she wants. It's less likely they'd buy only dresses for a boy who wants that.

The kids enjoyed it and learned a little something.
They learned (or were told) something that isn't true. That's the issue.

WTF

Have you read the thread?

WTFnnoh

Because it’s a lie

Their are gay people
Men can love men however men cannot become a women

The parents weren't told that they would be learning this, so having the choice to withdraw their children or ask what was going to be taught wasn't an option.

The kids enjoyed it and learned a little something.
They learned (or were told) something that isn't true. That's the issue.

And the other issue is that the major group who produce materials for such ‘little somethings’ are pushing for reductions in child safeguarding.

Similarly why would you wish to withdraw your child from a lesson like this at summer camp? It’s a part of life and learning tolerance, respect and acceptance at a young age should be too.

Agree with this.

Metoo thankfully your view doesn’t speak for society as a whole. People who have changed sex are accepted by society. Boys that wear dresses for a few years, pretend to be a girl and then shrug it off a few years down the line are few and far between and not trans.

TreeSqueak, many posters agree YANBU to be concerned.
Have you spoken to the camp leaders about your concerns?

Some posters are saying that what the kids reported as being told to them may not actually be what was said. Kids get things wrong sometimes.
Of course they do.
What the kids reported, tho, is what they came away with from what was said.
So maybe the session wasn't as well thought out as some posters believe it was.

Yeah I read the thread and it’s full of the usual MN paranoia around trans issues. If your kids are going to decide that they’re trans based on one session at summer camp them something else is going on. I think the education around the issue is more important than the very very slim chance your child will be influenced that heavily. I really don’t get the overreaction here. The people who are campaigning so heavily for increased rights, reduction of safeguarding etc are the minority. They just shout the loudest. Most trans people just want to live their lives in peace like everyone else.

And the wording the op used re what her dc described. Seriously I fail to see how anybody could have a problem with anything the kids said. Sounded well balanced and exactly what more kids should have access to. Schools really need to do more in this area, perhaps then some posters might understand the LGBT community better and LGBT bullying figures in schools would drop.

But do you agree that a man can actually become a woman - change their sex (and vice versa)? This is the line that some take when educating children.

And again, its not paranoia, bigotry of homophobia to question.

P3onyPenny

Stonewall and other organisations who advocate for Trans people do not agree with you. People who say they are trans, are trans.
You do not have to have any surgery even to obtain a Gender Recognition Certificate. And most trans people do not.

Furthermore TAs are now arguing for self-identification of gender (no mental health support, no gatekeeping) to be the only criterion to obtain a GRC. In other words a man could wear a dress (or not bother), keep his penis and still gain the right to call himself a woman.

Have a look at the link I put earlier about the Trans Umbrella

P3ony

You are making a big assumption that people on this thread don't know the community, or are not lesbians or gay themselves. It's you who are misinformed, I'm afraid

The people who are campaigning so heavily for increased rights, reduction of safeguarding etc are the minority

And yet they have managed to drive organisations like swim England, the girl guides and youth hostelling Scotland to adopt policies that endanger women and children.

They have managed to get to train the NHS, the police and schools with material that contradicts safeguarding

They have managed to be the sole advisors to government on proposals that will make the equality act 2010 unworkable - that act is the ONLY piece of legislation that protects women’s rights.

So while most people with gender dysphoria im sure do want to live their lives quietly (and should be protected, as they are under law, to do so) that loud, vocal minroty is doing a LOT of damage.

This is not a pearl clutching ‘oooh they might catch the gay!’ issue. It’s a serious issue about child safeguarding, who gets to advise government and schools, and erosion of the laws that protect women and children.

The young 'uns think they invented gay you know...

WTF

Yes, old-school transexuals do want to live in peace. Many transexuals have argued that self-identification of gender is not a good thing. They recognise that human beings cannot change sex but simply want the freedom to present themselves in ways which make them comfortable. They do not wish to impinge on the rights of women of children Many of them have come out arguing against it and been abused by TRAs

The love and respect thing is fine. But telling young children they can actually change sex is obviously daft. I actually had to pull my kid out of a planned talk by Mermaids at her reception. Loads of the other parents also pulled their children out after researching the 'charity'. They are a pressure group, and their 'teachings' include gems such as 'everyone exists on a scale from barbie to GI joe' and telling children that the stereotypes they follow actually dictate their sex, rather than their biology hmm

As always, safeguarding is an issue I think. It kind of scares me how willing some adults seem to be to throw out all we know about child safeguarding the second the T word is mentioned. Indeed many trans pressure groups/TRAs seem to actively want to destroy all safeguarding procedures we currently have.

I agree.
Once you see the absurdity of telling children they can change sex, it's difficult to see how other adults don't see it

If these loons had got a hold of my sister when we were kids 'he' would be called Fred now. She was the biggest tomboy on the planet and if someone had told her that she could be a real boy (just like Pinocchio) she would have jumped at the chance.