AIBU to be furious or am I overreacting? TW

[Yetanotherusername1]

I posted this in Chat but got no traffic. Hope it's ok to put here.

Potential trigger warning re: abuse

Hope I have covered bases by posting the TW. I wouldn't want to cause anyone any distress.

Ok, so I have posted about having issues with my dd's friend before and have had lots of really useful advice and I thought I was managing their interactions. I have name-changed because I am a bit paranoid about being outed so please can no-one link to the previous thread. Girl has potential ASD issues and can be a bit controlling but dds and son like playing with her. Child is 8. She has tickled my dd between her legs before whilst playing before and I have had to ask her to not touch my dd down there. Yesterday she did it again. DD ran in and told me immediately as I have taught her to do. The friend ran off and slammed her door which she does whenever she has done something wrong.

I had to talk to her mum which I found EXCRUCIATING and uncomfortable, mainly because I have some trauma in this area. I summoned up the courage and went round and asked for a quiet word. Her mum apologised but didn't seem overly concerned. I asked her to please reinforce with her dd about bodies and where it is ok to touch other children. Mum assures me that she does tell her this regularly and it was probably just her being silly.

I feel quite squicked out about it for a number of reasons. DH said I did the right thing and the kid probably just needs boundaries enforced. I thought I handled it well. Today my dd came in and said the girl, along with another girl, was trying to pull down my younger son's pants. I went out, they were all playing on the grass in front of my house, and talked to one of the girls, who assured me it was just a joke and it was largely because my boy fell over and grazed his thigh which he had. I looked around for my son and realised he had gone down the side of my house, when I walked round he was being manhandled by dd's friend trying to pull his pants down. I shouted at him to come to me. I took him in and chatted to him about what was happening. He burst into tears and said she was trying to see his privates. She specifically asked for him to show it to her. He said stop. I heard him saying stop as I walked around.

I went out and raised my voice. Not insanely, but I did make it clear I was angry and I told both of the girls off. I've kept him inside, but now he wants to go back out and play.

What do I do? Do I put it down to children mucking around or do I have to have yet another conversation with her mum? It seems her mum hasn't reinforced boundaries like I asked at all. Or is this just a child with possible ASD not understanding boundaries?

I feel really angry and tearful. I don't know if I am overreacting because I have some abuse in my past. I'm on my own with both of the kids at the moment and don't have anyone to run this past except here! Any advice greatly appreciated?

OP, you sound like you want to avoid conflict at all costs, and that's understandable if this situation is triggering for you.

But you need to find the strength for the sake of your DC to be firm and consistent in your boundaries with this family. They need to come first, not X's feelings, or her mother's.

I don't think they're as nice as you think, if they were considerate, they'd give you all some bloody breathing space!

I think the Mum is going to keep tapping at my door asking why they are not playing with her child

You tell her your children are not going to play with her child because her child assaulted your children. And then you refuse to discuss it further.

You must protect your children. You must.

My neighbour confided in me her dd4 had been quite (imo) sexually assaulted in a tent in her own garden by a neighbour's ds 11.
Her solution was to move.
Issue never addressed, no message/support at all to her dd imo.
Meanwhile the boy was free to strike again.
If I was you op nc would have to be the way forward.

Your children cannot play with X any more. X's mum's responses are a huge concern. You have to call NSPCC and potentially Social Care and you need to inform school when they return. You cannot be friends with the mum. I would text and say 'My children cannot play with yours any more. I don't want any further discussion about it.'

Could your DH also speak to the mother and reiterate what you have said?
ie: your children cannot play with X for the foreseeable future
Or do they come round when he is not at home?

The mum minimising this and saying its innocent play may well be her take on it - but be very careful you do not know how her boundaries and perceptions of what is ok came about.

When there has been any risk of my child hurting other children (SN) I am all over them, I will not let anything happen to another child. It is what needs to happen. But that is my responsibility, not the other child's parent.

Get some boundaries sorted, and stick to them. Good luck. Protect your children.

You need to call Social Services on NSPCC. You really, really do. Especially since the mum is pretending all is well...

If you can't bring yourself to do it, can you contact the girl's school; it may have staff in, and they are mandatory reporters.

However awkward or embarrassing this is, this is what you have to do to protect your own children and to alert to possible harm or neglect to X.

I remember your previous post about this girl and thought at the time that you need to reduce contact with this girl. You need to just end the friendship.

No need to be nasty to the mother or the girl - you had a polite conversation and clearly the mother did nothing or made it worse possibly- but just make it clear that the children do not come out to play anymore when she asks for them because she did not play appropriately or kindly. She should be old enough to understand that. The mother is clearly not willing to enforce boundaries so you have to just keep your kids away from this girl. Especially since she is older and it is harder for them as little kids to protect themselves.

You owe this woman nothing but you owe your kids safety and protection.

I sympathise with how difficult this is for you, OP. You’re neighbours and the children go to school together, and everyone knows everyone. It’s not a simple case of going NC and everything will be sorted.

I think there’s a middle ground of severely reduced contact though. It won’t be easy, because the mother seems to have the social skills of a gnat and doesn’t even have the decency to encourage her DD to leave you alone for the night.

Remember: stay angry. Remember all the bullying and broken toys. The cycle of emotional blackmail will continue. The girl will knock on your door and hang out of her window shouting at you. You can be “busy” a lot. If your children genuinely want to play with her, keep it short and keep it supervised. Send her home after the allotted time. It is not your job to babysit this kid every time her mum waves her off to your house.

At this point I would be entirely prepared to fall out with your neighbour! I'm so angry on your behalf! She's letting her child harass you even though she knows your feelings. She has no respect for your boundaries at all.

I'd take the kids out somewhere else for the next few days too, if you can.

As others have said, you really need to speak to the nspcc about this, the victim blaming from Xs mum is particularly worrying. I wouldn't even allow supervised play in future because, realistically, unless you are watching them 100% of the time there will be an opportunity for this to happen again.

I would not allow her to play with my DC under any circumstances.

Her mother has no control over her child and minimises her behaviour which is a concern as it is suggestive of abuse. Also this kid in no way sees what she does was wrong. If she did she wouldn't be badgering your DC in their own garden. I would tell the mum that she doesn't play with them and that you expect the mum to actually fucking parent her own kid and stop her shouting out the window!

She also 'explained' that it was child's play/curiousity/just a silly game/just copying etc.

Just copying what exactly?

You need to balance the harm here, between upsetting your 'friend' or letting your children down

Edgeof17 Copying what the other girl was doing. X tends to copy other children and doesn't know when to stop. As her mum said, the first girl started it and she carried it on.

LlamaPyjamas That was an incredibly insensitive remark. I said it makes me feel sick but I didn't say I wouldn't do it. I have every intention of putting measures in place to ensure my children do not have to go through this again. Posting here for advice is part of the process.

OP, it's a huge red flag that X's mum isn't taking your concerns sufficiently seriously. It doesn't help X and it doesn't help you and your kids. You're right to be angry and to protect your children. Trust your gut feeling - it's there for a reason.

Do please think about your wider responsibility too. Towards, other children and towards X.

Will your current actions get X the help and intervention she needs? If, as you say, she may have ASD, then help needs to be early and specific to her. Her mother is struggling to recognise this.

At the moment, you say you will take steps to protect your own children. Will you also be able to ensure that other children don't experience similar or escalating abuse (this is what it is)?

Do you think that if X was a boy that you might be taking more direct action and responsibility? You are the adult who has witnessed this situation. The other adults aren't taking suitable action. The children cannot.

Please get outside help. This is beyond her family to deal with alone.

You must call npscc. The mother is minimising possibly for a number of reasons.
She is aware of abuse in the home and doesn't want to let on.
Abuse is occurring and she is burying her head in the sand.
Her DC has been exposed to innapropriate material either maliciously or through ineffective parenting (Not monitoring internet use)
Dc's SN are more profound than first thought and she's not dealing with it.

Either way, that kid needs help. Stop this while you can.

Thanks all. Dh and I have come up with a strategy and we will be informing the school. Thank you for all the advice.

This cannot possibly wait until September when the children return to school, if that's your plan. There is significant risk here. Please say that you intend to report before then?

I am the mother of three sons with ASD (now adult) and I usually find myself instinctively on the side of those children with such conditions. I am also now a foster carer and obviously work with social services.

I would urge you PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE contact either social services/NSPCC and definately the school. Red flags are waving not because of the actions of the children but because of the reaction of the mum. The fact she is reacting in the way she has, is actually quite terrifying. Obviously as parents with children with particular issues, we should work hard to address them and call in professional help if necessary too. She is minimising this and it is THAT which causes me the greatest concern. It shouldn't be your children staying away, it should be her daughter made to stay inside (at least at this stage).

Certainly there can be boundary issues, but this needs to be dealt with by the parents and outside help if necessary. I have faced situations with my children/foster children that have impacted negatively on other children, and we needed to deal with it, make changes and so on.

One thing I have learnt from having boys with ASD (all very different btw) is that a child with ASD can be naughty that has nothing to do with their ASD, let's face it a child with ASD could abuse others, or be abused at home. ASD maybe a reason for some actions but it is never an excuse once a certain boundary has been crossed. That boundary HAS been crossed. I would urge you and your husband to make that difficult call to alert the authorities, not just for YOUR children, but for OTHER children and maybe most of all for the girl herself. Her parents aren't helping her, and with that call YOU CAN.

I wish you luck.

OK I feel shaky and nauseous now. I'll contact NSPCC. I have just seen there is an online facility. I don't feel confident talking about it as it makes me feel awful.

You need to protect your children, how you feel doesn't matter. You can protect them by reporting it and not allowing any further contact; stay with your children when they play outside to keep her away.

OK I feel shaky and nauseous now. I'll contact NSPCC. I have just seen there is an online facility. I don't feel confident talking about it as it makes me feel awful.

You are doing the right thing and helping all the children (and potential children) involved. I am frankly aghast at the mother's lack of reaction - her poor little girl. I admire you very much.

NSPCC have a helpline that you can ring or e-mail to discuss concerns about a child with trained counsellors
www.nspcc.org.uk/services-and-resources/nspcc-helpline/