AIBU to be furious or am I overreacting? TW

[Yetanotherusername1]

I posted this in Chat but got no traffic. Hope it's ok to put here.

Potential trigger warning re: abuse

Hope I have covered bases by posting the TW. I wouldn't want to cause anyone any distress.

Ok, so I have posted about having issues with my dd's friend before and have had lots of really useful advice and I thought I was managing their interactions. I have name-changed because I am a bit paranoid about being outed so please can no-one link to the previous thread. Girl has potential ASD issues and can be a bit controlling but dds and son like playing with her. Child is 8. She has tickled my dd between her legs before whilst playing before and I have had to ask her to not touch my dd down there. Yesterday she did it again. DD ran in and told me immediately as I have taught her to do. The friend ran off and slammed her door which she does whenever she has done something wrong.

I had to talk to her mum which I found EXCRUCIATING and uncomfortable, mainly because I have some trauma in this area. I summoned up the courage and went round and asked for a quiet word. Her mum apologised but didn't seem overly concerned. I asked her to please reinforce with her dd about bodies and where it is ok to touch other children. Mum assures me that she does tell her this regularly and it was probably just her being silly.

I feel quite squicked out about it for a number of reasons. DH said I did the right thing and the kid probably just needs boundaries enforced. I thought I handled it well. Today my dd came in and said the girl, along with another girl, was trying to pull down my younger son's pants. I went out, they were all playing on the grass in front of my house, and talked to one of the girls, who assured me it was just a joke and it was largely because my boy fell over and grazed his thigh which he had. I looked around for my son and realised he had gone down the side of my house, when I walked round he was being manhandled by dd's friend trying to pull his pants down. I shouted at him to come to me. I took him in and chatted to him about what was happening. He burst into tears and said she was trying to see his privates. She specifically asked for him to show it to her. He said stop. I heard him saying stop as I walked around.

I went out and raised my voice. Not insanely, but I did make it clear I was angry and I told both of the girls off. I've kept him inside, but now he wants to go back out and play.

What do I do? Do I put it down to children mucking around or do I have to have yet another conversation with her mum? It seems her mum hasn't reinforced boundaries like I asked at all. Or is this just a child with possible ASD not understanding boundaries?

I feel really angry and tearful. I don't know if I am overreacting because I have some abuse in my past. I'm on my own with both of the kids at the moment and don't have anyone to run this past except here! Any advice greatly appreciated?

I'd stop my children playing with those particular "friends". It's not acceptable behaviour at all.

I hope you're ok, OP.

She came round and knocked on the door and demanded to know 'what's going on?'
Gave me the full sob story how X is upset because my son said he wasn't allowed to play with her anymore. She took me completely by surprise as I was expecting her to have more self-awareness and stay the fuck away.
As she took me off-guard, I rather wobbly explained I didn't want my children playing out tonight and asked her if she had spoken to X about the situation. She then gave me X's version of events and how my Dd and the other friend were also trying to pull his trousers down. I know there was some teasing but my Dd was the one who ran in and told me that X and the other girl were doing it and had told them to stop. Remember when I went out, the other girl was riding a bike and my son was around the corner being held up against a wall by X?

The mum wanted to know if I had spoken to the other girl's mum as well. I haven't as I don't feel it is necessary. She also 'explained' that it was child's play/curiousity/just a silly game/just copying etc. All of which I am sure are factors, but I was so pissed off at this point I told her that I wasn't concerned with intentions more with her actions. I said I now have a zero tolerance policy and they can't play with her again if it happens. She seemed to understand then got X to come over and apologise to me and my son. I thanked her for her apology then together we talked to her about bodies and not touching.

I still asked my children to come in and said they weren't playing out tonight. I left the Mum dealing with a humongous melt down from the child that the whole street could hear!

I think I was very clear.
20 mins later the girl is knocking asking to play again, standing on the doorstep asking my Dd when she can play with her again and can she play in the backgarden with her as she can see Dd is outside jumping rope. Mum is hovering in the background!? Thankfully my son saved the day by announcing loudly and clearly, 'We are not allowed to play with you, as you need to be taught a lesson'... Mum called her away at this point.

So that is the update.
I'm still vacillating on contacting the NSPCC now though.

I'm thinking heavily short heavily supervised play for a while.

Well, at least there's no ambiguity!

Is it really a bad thing? X did something (well, lots of things if you consider you other thread too) wrong and has not been appropriately dealt with. The worrying behaviour continues.

I imagine the parents won't like it, but if they won't deal with it, you must. You have to protect your children.

Cross post.

I think your son's ace!

Bless him!

I know it seems really straight forward to stop my kids from playing with her, and yes it should be. The difficulty is we live so close and our daily lives are intertwined, plus we have a ton of mutual friends.

I'm not sure I can completely stop my kids from playing with her. They are currently really upset because I have said they can't go out. They can't go in the back garden either as the child is hanging out of her window just repeatedly asking to play. It's breaking my heart a little bit if I am honest. When they are playing nicely they have so much fun.

I'm not sure I can completely stop my kids from playing with her of course you can - your job is to protect your children.

You shouldn't stop your dc playing in your garden- just because she is hanging about that is not fair on them....

I would leave the outside play for a couple of days and then maybe only for short very supervised period of time....you will basically have to sit there watching them as x's mum obviuosly is not getting it/doesn't care/is a big part of the problem..

It’s a shame you were taken by surprise.
She’s got an immense thick skin or lack of self awareness on this issue given the previous events.

Can you send her a text if you prefer to give some thought to what you want to say to her?

You could say something like
I have been thinking about what happened and I’m not sure about the version you have been told by X as I actually witnessed some of it (or whatever you saw)

I’m not happy about this, x’s difficulty in understanding appropriate boundaries and the fact my children’s discomfort in relation to what she was doing was ignored.

And now just less than half an hour of a very detailed conversation she was back knocking at our door, apparently with your consent.

I must be clear about this - Xs behaviour around my children is upsetting them and I will not tolerate this anymore.

Regrettably I must make it clear that X is not welcome to play with my children in the street, in my home or garden for the foreseeable future. Please don’t embarrass X or yourself by allowing or encouraging her to call for them to play.

I regret if this may upset you and X but I must put my children’s well-being and feelings first on this matter.

OP in your shoes I’d seriously consider moving house if it was the only way to keep my DC away from this abusive child. She will never stop and the situation will only become more severe as the kids get older. A couple of years ago it was in the news that an 11yo was convicted of raping a younger child. Protect your DC before something awful happens to them.

Oh I forgot the other comment the mum said, which was that my son wasn't saying 'no'. X also said 'he didn't say no'.

I saw him pulling away from her and I could HEAR him saying 'No'. So I did correct her.

I now feel like I have overreacted and that this is the sort 'japes' kids get up to. I was also told by the Mum that this is all innocent curiousity and not to worry as there is nothing sexual about it.

littletike short of keeping my children indoors constantly, I don't know how to completely STOP any association without completely falling out with my neighbour.

I think you should contact NSPCC about her to get some real life advice,

However it may come down to you making a choice between upseting the mum or not protecting your children from her unwanted behaviour.

Do not question yourself OP. You are not overreacting and have done the right thing.

This is not childish japes at this age- she is old enough to know not to do this, and the fact that she is upset now means that she may hopefully learn that these actions have consequences.

The most concerning thing at this stage is that she has lied and said he didn’t say no- you know this is a lie, therefore you know she knows she is wrong.

Also why does the mother think it’s ok that she did it because he didn’t say no?!

This needs nipping in the bud pronto. Stay firm.

You haven't overreacted. You heard your son saying no.

Think of it this way: if it had been an adult treating your children this way, you'd have gone straight to the police. The fact that it's another child doesn't make it any more acceptable.

I'd let my children play out in the garden and if the kid opposite was hanging out of the window calling to them I'd tell her, clearly and loudly, that they were not going to play with her because she touched them inappropriately. Remind her. Keep reminding her. Because it doesn't sound as though her mother is doing it.

To be honest I know that it is still the beginning of the holidays, but if they all go to school together I would be informing the teacher when they return in September of what is happening and asking them to keep on eye on it too.

Agree with @missnevermind about referring this to school as a safeguarding concern.

I think you are doing the completely right thing OP, and you've handled it really well.

I think X's DM is very clever at manipulating, and has turned it to make you feel like you are overreacting - there's no reasoning with people like this as they convince themselves! It's in part defensiveness, she probably doesn't want to believe her DD is capable of behaving in such a way hence minimises her behaviour/has her head in the sand.

I wouldn't tolerate any more play with X, and I don't think you have to run this past the DM. I'd back off in a 'friendly' way, such as still saying hello and being polite, but busying your children so they don't have time to play out. Make a big fuss of special 'mummy and DC time' in the garden making potions/making a tent and if X asks to join in just merrily call 'sorry X we're doing a project, maybe later' in a kind way. Find activities to do indoors like making ice lollies/hobby stuff or things they can do independently while you are busy (lots of fab ideas on Play Hooray on Instagram and play hooray Facebook community). Focus on making it activities just for you and your DC's, and go out as much as possible away from home. If you do this as much as possible for the duration of the summer holidays it will be a good break for all, and you can reassess at school time. It isn't been mean to X (she's over crossed that line so I'd be fresh out of sympathy) but it's kinder to be too busy for your DC's to play with her, as the direct approach didn't work with her DM x

So, you don't think a break and the reintroduction of heavily supervised play is a good method? She has been made to apologise to both me and my son, and both her mum and me spoke to her today about bodies and how wrong her behaviour was. She was suitably upset and kept saying 'I'm embarrassed, I'm sorry'. Her mum has never made her come round and for us all to talk about what happened so I really think she was trying. It was excruciating for all of us but we did it.

I've also made it clear that I now have a zero tolerance approach to touching in private places, and that the children will not play with her today. The mum is still dealing with the fallout of my kids not playing with her as I can STILL hear her crying on and off.

Or do I just stop all contact?

To be honest, the idea of contacting the school or SS makes me want to vomit. I have my own issues with it.

It's because I know the family. If it was someone I didn't know well, none of this would phase me, but for some reason I struggle here. I think it is because I have known the girl and her parents a long time.

LlamaPyjama - I really am not in a position to move house!

Even so OP, how long before it happens again? I'd let the dust settle a little as what's best for X isn't necessarily going to be helpful for DC's. Sadly the situation has made it all about her feelings etc but by taking a break it sets a clear message to your DC's that their feelings really matter - they've been embarrassed too, and upset. You've set a clear message, the sorry is a good start but stopping contact for a while in a gentle way of reinforcing to both X and DM that you won't allow certain behaviours. You don't have to make it obvious, just carefully back off, it's become a toxic situation that isn't healthy for any of you (your poor stress levels!! I'd be mainlining cake like Pac-Man)

I would stop all contact, no supervised play. I question how well they understood it or took it seriously as she was knocking on your door 20 minutes later too!

My children would 100% not be playing with her again. God forbid something dramatic happenhappened to them at her hands you would blame yourself forever.

I would send my children out to play in the garden and keep sending her away if she came over.
I wouldn't care how monumental the tantrum she threw was, that is her mother problem. And had her mother addressed the problem properly the last time and enforced boundaries it would not have came to this.
You have nothing to feel guilty about.
Your priority is to your children and their safety.

I think the Mum is going to keep tapping at my door asking why they are not playing with her child and because of our relationship, I am finding it really stressful. Any other parent and I would be quite assertive about it.

I will back off. I have stuck to my guns so far. Thanks all.

Why the fuck would you want her playing with them again? This won’t end well op.

To be honest, the idea of contacting the school or SS makes me want to vomit.
But you’re fine with your DC being sexually abused or potentially in a few years raped by this girl?