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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be furious or am I overreacting? TW

153 replies

Yetanotherusername1 · 01/08/2018 20:13

I posted this in Chat but got no traffic. Hope it's ok to put here.

Potential trigger warning re: abuse

Hope I have covered bases by posting the TW. I wouldn't want to cause anyone any distress.

Ok, so I have posted about having issues with my dd's friend before and have had lots of really useful advice and I thought I was managing their interactions. I have name-changed because I am a bit paranoid about being outed so please can no-one link to the previous thread. Girl has potential ASD issues and can be a bit controlling but dds and son like playing with her. Child is 8. She has tickled my dd between her legs before whilst playing before and I have had to ask her to not touch my dd down there. Yesterday she did it again. DD ran in and told me immediately as I have taught her to do. The friend ran off and slammed her door which she does whenever she has done something wrong.

I had to talk to her mum which I found EXCRUCIATING and uncomfortable, mainly because I have some trauma in this area. I summoned up the courage and went round and asked for a quiet word. Her mum apologised but didn't seem overly concerned. I asked her to please reinforce with her dd about bodies and where it is ok to touch other children. Mum assures me that she does tell her this regularly and it was probably just her being silly.

I feel quite squicked out about it for a number of reasons. DH said I did the right thing and the kid probably just needs boundaries enforced. I thought I handled it well. Today my dd came in and said the girl, along with another girl, was trying to pull down my younger son's pants. I went out, they were all playing on the grass in front of my house, and talked to one of the girls, who assured me it was just a joke and it was largely because my boy fell over and grazed his thigh which he had. I looked around for my son and realised he had gone down the side of my house, when I walked round he was being manhandled by dd's friend trying to pull his pants down. I shouted at him to come to me. I took him in and chatted to him about what was happening. He burst into tears and said she was trying to see his privates. She specifically asked for him to show it to her. He said stop. I heard him saying stop as I walked around.

I went out and raised my voice. Not insanely, but I did make it clear I was angry and I told both of the girls off. I've kept him inside, but now he wants to go back out and play.

What do I do? Do I put it down to children mucking around or do I have to have yet another conversation with her mum? It seems her mum hasn't reinforced boundaries like I asked at all. Or is this just a child with possible ASD not understanding boundaries?

I feel really angry and tearful. I don't know if I am overreacting because I have some abuse in my past. I'm on my own with both of the kids at the moment and don't have anyone to run this past except here! Any advice greatly appreciated?

OP posts:
FASH84 · 01/08/2018 21:35

I agree with a PP, this can be an indicator she is being sexually abused, or is witnessing sexual behaviours (IRL or porn) , whilst stopping your children playing with her is sound advice, it won't help her if she is at risk. I'd call the local SS hub or NSPCC and only allow your children to spend time with her under your supervision or if that's impossible not at all

madcatladyforever · 01/08/2018 21:36

Keep her away from your children and inform the mother that under no circumstances will you be allowing her to play with your children again. This behaviour is totally unacceptable and I would definitely report this.

Excited0803 · 01/08/2018 21:40

Report it, if there's nothing going on then at the least someone else can explain to her mum that this is far beyond acceptable.

Do not let there be any situation in which your children are alone with her again, it's right on the line of abusive already, it could get worse and it's already both unpleasant and confusing for them. They are your children to protect, follow your instincts.

Onynx · 01/08/2018 21:41

The other mother should be keeping HER child indoors to prevent this recurring if her boundary issues are such that she carries on like that. To me it seems as if the other mum is trivialising and not giving sufficient credence to the awfulness of what her daughter is doing.

N0tfinished · 01/08/2018 21:46

I am mother to ASD child. If I was told this I wouldn't let him out of my sight. The girls mother is failing her. I wouldn't allow any person to have access to my children if I thought they would come to harm. Just because she's a child is no excuse. If she was hitting them with sticks what would you do? You have to be brave & stand up for them. The other girls' welfare is her own mothers concern, just worry about your own children.

Lilicat1013 · 01/08/2018 21:47

I can't actually see how autism would explain this behaviour, it doesn't strike me as something that specifically related to autism or sensory issues.

It does seem sexualised and it seems she understands she is doing something wrong as she ensures she is doing it away from adults. If she didn't understand it was wrong she would do it in front of you.

When young children show sexualised behaviour it's important to follow it up in case there are serious concerns so in your position I would contact the NSPCC as they can advise. If there is something else going on telling someone is protecting her. If there isn't her mother might be able to access further advice on how to work on this behaviour as it's distressing for other children.

ReginaOcarina · 01/08/2018 21:47

I remember your last thread. You sound so kind and lovely and a lot calmer than I think I could be. I think you have gone above and beyond to be considerate of this girl and any issues she is having. I do agree with pp that I think this is it now. Stop her coming to your home and tell her why when she knocks. She has been warned so many times and so has her mother, this shouldn't come as any great shock. I think you could all do with a break from her and your kids will see this as you completely having their back. This is not normal kids playing and they shouldn't have to accept it, nor should you just because her mother can't be bothered to be an actual parent. Flowers

ProudThrilledHappy · 01/08/2018 21:55

I’m with N0tfinished, ds has ASD and can behave inappropriately (mostly toilet humour loudly in restaurants tbh) but it I was told this was happening I would be 1) reminding him about personal boundaries and 2) watching him like a hawk to ensure he did not cause distress to other children with his behaviour

You have given the mum every opportunity to deal with this and she doesn’t take it seriously, you must prioritise your children and keep them away from the other girl. It may well be the only way she learns to respect them, if she loses their company.

I do also find it concerning that she is fixated on their privates, it would be worth contacting NSPCC for advice as you could be witnessing evidence of abuse

kimber83 · 01/08/2018 21:55

Report to nspcc asap, that's far beyond acceptable boundaries three times.

Please protect them from this - I agree with the poster above who said friends can be bullies too.

I had a similar thing happen when young (about 5) with a slightly older female child neighbor, I needed protection but my parents thought we were all neighborhood friends. It took a less severe incident being witnessed by an adult to finally get it to stop - basically my parents stopped her coming around and I wasn't allowed out to play unsupervised as much with the neighborhood kids in their homes. I thought I had to because they were "friends" Sad

Haworthia · 01/08/2018 22:00

Did you post very recently, as in the last few days, about this child? Always on the doorstop asking to play, mother emotionally blackmails you (makes sure you can hear her daughter crying when she runs home after an infraction)? Mother always trying to downplay misbehaviour/breaking of toys?

I have no interest in outing your other thread BTW. But if you are the same poster, I really think you have to say enough is enough and severely limit contact with this child. She causes you nothing but stress, and I don’t suppose your children have a whale of a time playing with her either.

ConciseandNice · 01/08/2018 22:02

ASD is irrelevant. The fact is this girl (and her friend) have been humiliating your children and hurting them both emotionall and physically -bullying them under a guise which some adults put down to curiosity. I was in this position as a small child and I remember it 40 years on. It’s appalling behaviour and not all children do it. All are curious, but all kids should know that privatea are private. Protect your kids and remove these people from your life. I’m sorry for all that you’re going through I really am.

Gemini69 · 01/08/2018 22:06

OP you need to stop making excuses for this Child and inform the relevant agencies in your region/town of her behaviour.

how far do you need this Child to go in forcing both your kids into sexual situations/exposure before you react to protect them ?

I agree with every single Poster on here.. you need to do something now.

Fang2468 · 01/08/2018 22:09

You are not over reacting. The girls behaviour is unacceptable and she was trying to abuse your DS.
I would tell the parents about it and not allow them to make excuses, and do not let them play together again. I also support the Pp’s Views if considering reporting to SS.

Teaformeplz · 01/08/2018 22:12

I realise I am in complete contradiction to most other people commenting, but I definitely do not think the child is being malicious- nor is it a sign of abuse.

Disallowing your children to play with a child who has possible ASD will make the child feel completely alienated which can lead to a whole strong of problems.

ASD children learn differently and regardless of being taught not to their whole lives, this is still typical behaviour they can display no matter what age. Explain to your child how to deal with this situation without making the other child feel like they've done something terrible and lost their friend, ASD struggle to make friends and obviously have bonded with your ds.

IceCreamFace · 01/08/2018 22:13

I think it's tricky on the one hand it can be normal for kids to play like this and it may be that with her ASD she's curious and doesn't understand boundaries. OTOH your children need to be protected and to know that it is absolutely not OK for someone to touch or look at you down there without permission.

IceCreamFace · 01/08/2018 22:15

I do think you need to manage your reaction to the girl rather than the girl herself. Her mother may be reinforcing it but the DD just won't stop (fairly typical with ASD) or maybe the mum isn't bothering so you just have to accept that she will behave like this and decide whether your DC should be around her and if so they need to know how to respond to this behaviour.

Gemini69 · 01/08/2018 22:18

OP I believe your priority is your Children. Your children's safety must come first.

Please don't allow your children to be abused, because saying NO more will make another child feel alienated ..

magoria · 01/08/2018 22:19

OP's children should not have to put up with this behaviour at all. How many times is enough?

OP has posted about three that she knows about. There may be more.

Unfortunately OP has asked not to link to her previous posts.

This child knows what she does is wrong as she tries to get OP's DC to lie and cover it up. The mother does nothing to correct her child and tells OP how upset her child is when her children want to do other things or not play with her.

PurpleFlower1983 · 01/08/2018 22:19

As others have said, there are clear markers for sexual abuse going on here. Report it to SS.

TheRealKimmySchmidt63 · 01/08/2018 22:25

Speak to the Mum with dh and say you'd like to get the three children together and speak to all 3 then you know she's got the message - it's not the child's fault.

Then I would limit/supervise play but not stop it completely xxxx

NonaGrey · 01/08/2018 22:33

Your first duty is to protect your own children.

Go and see the Mum and explain that her daughter is no longer allowed to play with your children and why.

The the other girl’s Mother too.

Original poster
Yetanotherusername1 · 01/08/2018 22:37

Thank you all.

I actually had no concern re: inappropriate behaviour until the last two days, literally after I had posted the other threads so I'm conscious this looks like I am 'amping' it up. I can assure you all I am not a troll before anyone suggests it!

Ice cream - I think it's tricky on the one hand it can be normal for kids to play like this and it may be that with her ASD she's curious and doesn't understand boundaries. OTOH your children need to be protected and to know that it is absolutely not OK for someone to touch or look at you down there without permission.

See, I'm inclined to think this is the situation and not that she is in some way being abused. I really don't want to invite SS into their lives unless it is absolutely necessary. I also know another child with similar challenges who is obsessed with bodies and bodily functions and his parents find it really hard to manage. It has nothing to with abuse but is part of his ASD.

My kids all know the underpants rule and understand boundaries. We have had another discussion tonight before bed.

I'm actually quite bad at dealing with this kind of thing and have spent the rest of today feeling quite nauseous about to all and quietly tearful. I will talk again to the Mum and stop them playing together. I have never had to talk to another parent about this or stop a friendship and frankly, I am shitting myself about it.

OP posts:
whattimeislove · 01/08/2018 22:47

I'm sorry OP I'm not surprised you're worried about talking to the mum.

I think you just have to say that on xx occasions you've now found her daughter trying to inappropriately touch both your children, despite them both saying no and despite you speaking to mum about it previously. It is your job to keep your children safe and that means no longer allowing them to play with hers.

Then stick to it.

Original poster
Yetanotherusername1 · 01/08/2018 23:09

Just to clarify, they are not playdates. We live directly opposite so it's just playing out in the front of the houses. We have a community square that the kids play in.

OP posts:
danni0509 · 01/08/2018 23:26

My son has ASD and knows no boundaries, like he regularly touches peoples boobs, he is obsessed! He also grabs his teachers boobs Blush he doesn't have a clue it's wrong, doesn't understand when we tell him not to do it, we just have to divert his attention to something else & hope he grows out of it.

What's the girls comprehension like? Does she understand what you say etc? Is she delayed at all in her development?

What I'm wondering though is why the girl is allowed to play out unsupervised? Surely if she has additional needs and at only 8 yrs old she should be being supervised by her parent?