Demonisation of formula!!!

[Summertimehaze]

Don’t know if anyone watched the Dispatches programme last night on breastfeeding? The more I think about that programme the more annoyed I’m getting!!! The demonisation of formula really doesn’t help mothers who struggle to breastfeed and have to start using formula or even as a top up!! Most mothers want to do what’s right for their babies and know that breast is best. But some mums just can’t do it and so formula literally becomes a lifesaver. I’m sick of seeing mums feel so guilty about it and letting their children bloody starve because they surely can’t give them the evil formula!!!!!! The programme basically tells a new mum that it’s really tough to breastfeed, there is no support, they will be judged BUT formula is not an option!!! Grrrrrrrrr 😡. AIBU

@Ennirem interesting your comment about erogenous zones too - I've never found my breasts to be particularly sensitive and I really dislike them being fiddled with whilst DTD so having a baby attached to one or other of them also didn't seem to provoke any pleasurable feelings at all.

I think, for me, lack of information didn't help. Having been led to believe that BFing was pleasurable and an amazing bonding experience, and that doing it for six months/two years was recommended, when I got into the reality of it I remember being overwhelmed with horror at the thought of doing this for two years. If someone had told me that I'd be feeding for over two years but it would only be once or twice a day for 5-10 minute from about nine months onwards then I'd have felt much better about it. The sheer overwhelming neediness of newborn DD was awful and exhausting. I was on the feeding older babies FB group and I know there are women on there who were still feeding two year olds multiple times at night, so it doesn't reduce down for everyone either.

But that then brings us back to more information for families and better support!

The follow on milk thing? The only things we were told about formula at my BFing antenatal class were that even one bottle of formula was bad and that follow on milk was a marketing ploy by formula companies to get us to buy a more expensive product.

The problem was, once I had to start using formula it became rather obvious that the follow on milk wasn't more expensive, it was exactly the same price as first infant formula and was in fact often cheaper because loyalty card points could be used towards it.

Result: even more loss of trust in the HCPs who told me this rubbish. If they could lie about something that is disproved by a simple trip to the supermarket then what else were they lying about? And then the entire BFing class syllabus becomes suspect.

DC1 Breastfeed for 21 months even though it made sleep a nightmare, and put a lot of pressure on my bad health (chronic pain couldn't take anything at all for that period plus breastfeeding)
DC2 Breastfed for 1 month, almost exclusively on a pump as he didn't latch. Beat myself up really badly and refused to use formula, cam to a head when DP decided enough was enough and I should take a damn painkiller and give the (very hungry) baby a bottle and give us all (some very much needed) sleep.

I was very sanctimonious due to earlier said successful breastfeeding relationship but can see now that, actually, breastfed is not always best. Both children are happy, healthy, growing, hitting all their milestones and OMG the relief when DC2 went onto formula for our entire family was tangible, not only did all the family breath a sigh of relief, but I swear the neighbours and even the bricks did. I kind of think it was karmic justice that DC2 never latched properly, because I remember thinking that other Mum's just hadn't 'tried.' I tried my best to breastfeed both, one it worked for, one it didn't. But if I have another one I will put my whole family into the equation as well as my health condition and seriously think about choosing formula at least after those early weeks.

Fed is best people, ignore the sanctimummy's with their first newborn, you never know they may go onto have another one who never drinks a drop of breastmilk and see the error of their sanctimonious ways.

From a reformed breastfeeding snob....

I haven't watched this programme, and I probably won't. So obviously, I can't comment on the programme itself.

personally, I had good feeding experiences and was lucky in that respect, because I know that many mothers don't, and they could be helped much more, by better breastfeeding support and more accurate information. At the same time, I think that mothers for whom BF could never work out even despite whatever support we could give them - or indeed, who didn't want to BF - are being failed on a massive scale.

As well as BFing my own babies, I did voluntary BF support. I did enjoy being there for mums and babies and trying to help them. However my impression was that there is misinformation out there in the BF advocacy and promotion communities. I have a science background and am well able to find and understand the studies which underpin the evidence base for BF promotion, as well as the studies (such as they are) informing the clinical management of lactation.

My feeling is that on both counts mothers are being given inaccurate information that in some, extreme, cases amounts to demonisation - for example in my experience of doing bf support it was common for support workers to talk about the "risks of formula" and to claim that "just one bottle can damage the baby's gut". It is also sometimes claimed that virtually all mothers can make enough milk for the baby to ebf - there is no study from a country like the UK which shows this is true. At the same time the "list" of outcomes that are benefitted by BF (as compared with formula) that is conveyed to mothers is often out of step with what is scientifically proven - the degree of confounding in feeding behaviours is such that very few of the outcomes are convincingly proven, things like prevention of respiratory tract infections, diarrhoea, NEC are solid but things like obesity, asthma, eczema, diabetes are much more shaky and may at the end of the day not come out as truly a causal effect of BF versus FF feeding.

However, in my opinion communication of this is not as cautious as it should be to families and clearly from this huge thread there are many families where the impression is being conveyed that feeding formula is in some way actively harmful, which it isn't. (in a country like the UK - OK, South Sudan maybe).

My experience was that many BF support people are kind, huge numbers of them don't go down the road of exaggeration and genuinely are basically there for families and giving the practical help they can. But this isn't helped by the wider rhetoric of promotion and some of the more vocal people who are really talking about the UK's breastfeeding rates as being a public health crisis, which it's far from clear that they are.

Personally I feel that potentially much more harm may be being done by overexaggeration of the harms of formula feeding, which at the very minimum just causes families which do end up FF the baby (who obviously, goes on to do JUST FINE) to distrust this area of health promotion and sometimes, that they don't get the help they need from HCPs to support safe feeding of the baby.

Interesting Ennirem as I got horrific aversion, especially at night, but I don't generally like my breasts, and specifically my nipples being touched generally (including sexually) They aren't particularly sensitive and are not erogenous for me. So it is odd that I should so dislike the sensation of breastfeeding.

I don't do any physical exercise at the moment. The other day I fed DD a burger and fries. I often eat crap myself. There are many reasons behind these choices, such as both me and DP trying to hold down demanding full time jobs, my pregnancy that leaves me with no energy and makes me crave 'comfort food' etc. I'm very aware that these are not ideal choices but it's what works for us in this particular point in time.

Had I switched on the telly while a documentary was on about the health risks associated with the lack of physical exercise in middle age or a high salt, high sugar diet during toddlerhood or pregnancy, I would have thought this was simply a documentary stating scientific facts, not a personal attack designed to make me feel guilty about my choices.

This thread must be making formula company marketing departments very happy.

The programme WAS an ego trip for the presenter so she could pat herself on the back and congratulate herself for breastfeeding. Thus making other women who had tried and failed feel like sh*t.

I limped on through 10 long, hard weeks breastfeeding DD2 (DD1 had refused the boob so sort of took the decision out of my hands). I had her tongue tie corrected, saw lactation consultants, went to breastfeeding support groups, saw a cranial osteopathist, perfected positioning and latch and STILL my daughter was feeding ineffectively. In the end she was feeding constantly, barely sleeping, was full of wind and in pain, never happy, screamed all the time. At my wits end we got in a maternity nurse who recommended moving her to the bottle and then from combination to formula feeding. At 13 weeks I now have a happy, contented baby who feeds and sleeps well and who is, crucially, no longer in pain.

The maternity nurse said to me that clearly breastfeeding does not always work or she wouldn't have a job. Some babies feed ineffectively and therefore don't get what they need to sleep properly. Some mums don't produce enough milk for a variety of reasons. It's really very common and NO-ONE (NHS, NCT etc) prepares you for it. Or what to do if it's going wrong. There wouldn't be so many breastfeeding support groups If it was easy.

I also genuinely don't understand why every one is so invested in how other people feed their babies. And even if a mum does reach straight for the formula, so what? What on earth has it got to do with you, judgey pants?

I'd also add that, given we have the lowest rates of breastfeeding in the developed world, clearly the UK policy of trying to guilt and shame mums into breastfeeding is NOT WORKING. This pervasive 'it is all so easy and natural' attitude means that women end up resorting to formula because they've not been prepared for the realities of breastfeeding or helped when things don't work. I'd be interested to see if breastfeeding rates increased if we just took the pressure off mums. I'd put money on the fact that it would.

The programme WAS an ego trip for the presenter so she could pat herself on the back and congratulate herself for breastfeeding. Thus making other women who had tried and failed feel like sht*

Oh stop it. It's this paranoid nonsense we have to stop pandering too. Your feelings are your own, stop making them everyone elses issue.

@StepAwayFromGoogle

Nothing stopping you from being proud of the breastfeeding you did do. You slogged through ten weeks. Be proud as opposed to attacking someone else.

Some of the vitriol on here towards breastfeeding is astonishing. Why can't people direct their anger at the government who are cutting the funding from support services that might have helped people carry on breastfeeding?

Well we’ve heard it all now. A woman who is in the early months of breastfeeding and admits to having struggled, to the point where she showed herself pumping to give her shredded nipples a break, wants to make a documentary about it purely for an ego trip. What an utterly vitriolic comment.

What is the basis for the claim that even one bottle of formula is bad? We were told this by the midwives at BFing antenatal class and it was also used against me by EBFing mums at a BFing support group when I went looking for help with combi feeding. It's very pervasive in the online BFing support too.

After we were admitted to SCBU I witnessed several mums admitted after us also with severely dehydrated babies, all incredibly upset at the mention of formula and certain it would harm their babies - the staff were being really apologetic but the women had all been told that even one bottle was bad.

What is the basis for the claim that even one bottle of formula is bad? We were told this by the midwives at BFing antenatal class and it was also used against me by EBFing mums at a BFing support group when I went looking for help with combi feeding. It's very pervasive in the online BFing support too

Using any formula at all when trying to establish BF is bad because the less you feed the less milk you will have and you will get into the spiral where you become convinced you have to use the formula.

ITs not made up to attack you. Its not about you. Women are constantly told to supplement with formula with absolutely no need to, and before you know it they are FF and claiming that they physically couldn't BF. I've heard it from HCP's who should know better.

Everybody struggles with breastfeeding at the start it’s whether you chose to struggle or take the easy option , very ,very rare cases a mother cannot physically do it

@RidingMyBike regarding the one bottle thing I think it’s something to do with virgin gut theory and the idea that anything other than BM for 1st 6months can interfere with the micobiome, although I’ve only ever seen references to this online. No hcps ever mentioned it. There’s also the supply issue I suppose when people start topping up on a regular basis.

I was just about to say the same Firsttimemum892.

But @manaftermidnight the ELF study showed that early limited formula supplementation improved BFing rates. If my DD had had that supplementation she wouldn't have been in SCBU! There seems to be no nuance to it - just 'even one bottle bad' which then means anyone combi feeding is condemned.

And I thought Virgin gut had been debunked?

I’ve no idea, I don’t really know what it is. As I said the fact that I’ve only seen references to it online suggested to me that it’s a bit, ahem, for the more ‘militant’ types. But I have also seen other people on here mention that a midwife has told them about it. Perhaps the microbiome thing is separate as that a newish area of research, perhaps your midwives were referencing that?

YABU and some people in this thread are being down right nasty.

I breastfeed my 2 year old and have on occassion used formula in the early months when i was l, nipples were shredded etc...

The programme wasnt demonizing formulas but was pointing out that it is a product of which the company shareholders of said product main priority is profit not infant nutrition. Hence why they work just within the guidelines and in the case of Nestle follow nefarious tactics such as going to third world countries where breast feeding literally is life and death and gave out free samples under the pretence it is better than breastmilk which then led to the mothers milk drying up early on --- that is fucking evil.

But @manaftermidnight the ELF study showed that early limited formula supplementation improved BFing rates

and lots of other studies show it doesn't. Your point?

@FiftyShadesOfDuckEggBlue the major difference here is the word “choice”. This is your choice. I didn’t have a choice ... I tried everything and still couldn’t breastfeed. So then to have the pressure of that and to feel like a failure is just not fair.

@KoolAidPickle that telling mums
that any formula at all is bad is really damaging? That it doesn't stop them BFing. And it saves lives.

I used to get so cross with those mums in BFing groups moaning about their baby being given a small amount of formula on the postnatal ward. Instead of being grateful they'd been spared the stay on SCBU with a seriously ill baby that we experienced. They were really cross their baby had had formula. They were still BFing. They just thought the formula was evil.

Yes I saw it and wanted to tell her to STFU. I formula fed from early on, I tried to BF (I'll admit I could have tried harder). Every class I went to, I would be stared at for giving a bottle. I applaud a woman's right to BF and in public. I thought the whole programme made something out of nothing.

RidingaBike I know a mum like that. She fancies herself as an influencer and did a whole Insta post on it. How she struggled to BF at first so the devil midwives gave the baby formula and "I should have said no...I don't know why I let them...I was so sleep deprived..."

Fuck off! Don't justify it! You did it because you had to, which is what a lot of mum's do!

Firsttimemum892 life is so simple isn't it.