Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Contact with older children after absence WIBU?

122 replies

Beckasaur · 28/07/2018 20:52

Emma and Dave (not their real names) have DD aged 10 and DS aged 12. They split 5 years ago. Dave has not seen the DCs for 3 years. The 2 years he did seem them he was inconsistent. Dave reckons Emma made it too difficult and Emma reckons Dave was messing her about and that once she put boundaries in place he bailed. Both have new partners and are in long term relationships with those partners. Dave pays maintenance in line with the CSA.

Dave now wants to start seeing the DCs. Emma wants Dave to write first and explain and say sorry for disappearing for the last few years and to write for a bit to show he is committed to seeing them. Dave feels they know and remember who he is and although he accepts the memories they have of him are both good and bad he doesn't want to write he just wants to arrange to see them. DS has said he doesn't want to see Dave. DD has said shell would like to see him. Dave doesnt only want to see one of them.

I am friends with both Emma and Dave, and frankly am a bit fed up of being stuck in the middle and trying to explain the opposing point of view. I can see why both of them are having the stance they are in part, but equally think they both being idiots. I am getting splinters form sitting on the fence on this, so thought I would put it to the MN jury ......

OP posts:
FASH84 · 28/07/2018 20:55

If he really wants to see them why be stubborn about a couple of letters? They certainly won't do any harm and they might even name his children feel better

Temporaryanonymity · 28/07/2018 20:55

They are both idiots. Terrible behaviour.

Unicornmammy · 28/07/2018 20:57

IMO Dave should apolgise to the DC and respect the wishes of the DC if one doesnt want to see him. Not both or non. Poor kids

NynaeveSedai · 28/07/2018 21:00

Dave is being a total dick. He needs to meet the kids' wishes not his own. If his son doesn't want to see him is he going to refuse to see the daughter?
I'm not sure why pp thinks the mum was an idiot. It sounds like she did exactly what a good parent should.

Snappedandfarted2018 · 28/07/2018 21:01

Dave is a waste of space and should have gone to court for access but chosen not to Emma has been there to pick up the pieces. Sometimes you need boundaries in place for the sake of the dc and he showed he couldn’t follow through. He should take anything offered at this stage.

Leeds2 · 28/07/2018 21:01

I think they are both behaving poorly, and that neither should involve you.
Given you are involved, I would encourage Dave to see his daughter asap, even though the son won't be there. He needs to be taking the steps to patch up at least one relationship, and hopefully for him the other will follow.

Subtlecheese · 28/07/2018 21:01

They need to listen to what the dc want.

Sistersofmercy101 · 28/07/2018 21:01

Children have a right to having their emotional and psychological welfare protected - "Dave" should be an actual adult parent and think of putting the emotional NEEDS of these children before his demands and wants.
Forcing a child into contact is horrid and totally ignores theit dishes feelings and autonomy and will cause massive resentment as will ignoring the child who wants contact because "it's either both together or nothing" - "Dave" is being selfish.

NewYearNewMe18 · 28/07/2018 21:03

Not everyone is a good wordsmith. Maybe Dave is uncomfortable writing. Perhaps Dave would like to verbally explain.

Out of curiosity - do Daves parents/wider family see the children?

Original poster
Beckasaur · 28/07/2018 21:04

FASH He reckons its because the kids wont write back to him and then Emma will use that as an excuse for him not to actually see them. He also doesnt think he should apologise as he feels he was blocked from seeing them. Personally I reckon its because generally if she says black he says something is white and he doesnt want to do her suggestion. Tbf I suspect Emma doesnt want him back in their lives. She makes the right noises, but shes happy with the family unit with her new partner/ I do understand why shes worried - he doesnt have the greatest reliability

Temporary Complete agreement there!

Unicorn Yep. I have pointed out hes letting DD down again by refusing to see her if shes happy to see him just because DS doesnt go. Its a bit head brick wall. Hes threatening court. Ive said I dont think hell get that far given his flakiness previously and absence. I suspect they will suggest writing first which if he is refusing to do .....

OP posts:
Nosleepandcranky · 28/07/2018 21:10

Hmmm, I think Emma is trying to humiliate Dave a little and hoping that the DC wont want to see him, I think Emma probably did act a little unreasonable and made things difficult. I think both dc's are still a little too young to need to know all the details, If dd is happy to see him then Emma and Dave need to come to an agreement over contact. Dave needs to respect ds decision and hope ds will change his mind soon.

BoneyBackJefferson · 28/07/2018 21:11

FASH84
If he really wants to see them why be stubborn about a couple of letters?

Because it would validate her story which may or may not be true.

Graphista · 28/07/2018 21:14

Dave is a dick! You don't effectively abandon your kids and then just expect to pick up where you left off just cos you want to!

The kids needs trump his wants EVERY time. It will not kill him to start with indirect contact if that is what the kids NEED for them to rebuild a relationship with him.

NynaeveSedai · 28/07/2018 21:15

Court won't help him! They won't force a 12 year old to go after a 3 year unexplained absence, and they will point out that the 10 year old was willing and available for contact so an order wouldn't be necessary.

Original poster
Beckasaur · 28/07/2018 21:16

yikes lots of cross posting.

Yes Dave is saying both or none. Personally I think thats the supidest thing hes said and hes said a fair few stupid things.

I dont think Emma was an idiot back then particularly. I think she was overly rigid in her dealings with him at times, but I understand why in the context of their relationship. I also think she sometimes made him jump through hoops because she could - she felt very powerless in their relationship and I think being in control sometimes was more important than trying to work together. For both of them to be fair.

Daves family don't see the children. His mum did a bit initially after the split but once Dave faded out of the picture, his mum found it too difficult as she felt she was siding with Emma over Dave given Dave said he was being blocked from seeing the DCs.

OP posts:
NynaeveSedai · 28/07/2018 21:17

David should have gone to court 3 years ago if she was dicking him about.

BoneyBackJefferson · 28/07/2018 21:17

Beckasaur

So she used the kids as weapons and he was a dick.

I feel sorry for the kids.

PrettyLovely · 28/07/2018 21:23

So he hasnt seen them for 3 years and when he did see them for 2 years after they split he was inconsistent.
I can see her view totally, If you have had your kids messed about like that you would be very wary. Its horrible having to pick up the pieces every time your child is let down.
Dave needs to grow up and stop starting drama, If he actually cared he would do what ever he could to see his children, he hasn't quite frankly and he needs to accept he has been a shit "Dad" and do whatever he can to make it up to them.
The fact he wont even apologise to them says everything you need to know about him.
Daves an arsehole.

CSIblonde · 28/07/2018 21:24

If he's that bothered re access surely he will apologise to the children? You can't just wipe stuff like this under the carpet. If the ex is maybe crap on paper/at letters, then would DS have a phone call? If DD wants to see him and DS still doesn't, then she should. DS might come round.

rainingcatsanddog · 28/07/2018 21:24

Emma was nbu to set boundaries.

Dave was bu not to go to court first.

Emma ibu to insist on the letter as condition of contact. I suspect that It's because Emma will read the letter and use it as a stick to beat him with. Dave needs to apologize but in person might be more his style.

Dave ibu not to treat the kids as individuals. He's basically setting up his son as the excuse that he'll use when his dd makes contact as an adult. Seeing his dd regularly will send the message to his son that he can be a consistent Dad and possibly change his mind later. Both or nothing is going to damage the sibling relationship when the kids find out.

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 28/07/2018 21:29

Dave needs to decide if he wants to be right or if he wants to see his kids.

Personally if I hadn’t seen my kids in 3 years then I’d crawl on broken glass if necessary.

PrettyLovely · 28/07/2018 21:29

"Yes Dave is saying both or none."

Poor kids its all about what Dave wants isnt it, his way or no way.
Nothing to do with how the kids feel at all.

Original poster
Beckasaur · 28/07/2018 21:30

Boney In very harsh terms yes probably.

I have known them both for over 20 years (we have a hobby in common) and I dont reckon either of them behaved without reproach in the whole thing. Neither of them wants to give the other an inch.

OP posts:
KitchenFloor · 28/07/2018 21:33

A bit ot but does Dave's mum want to see the kids now? Perhaps with Dave? Might it make Dave more reliable?

Original poster
Beckasaur · 28/07/2018 21:34

I think that once Emma said no to his request it has become about refusing to do what Emma wants.

I think Emma said no to his request without thought, and now she has said no and he has refused her option she wants him to concede.

I could be wrong but I have known them both 20+ years though, although I lost touch with Dave after they split and only in the last 18 months or so have become friendly again (I am friends with his new partner). I would also say which I probably should have said in the first post Daves new partner is pregnant - Emma does not yet know this though - which will totally put the cat among the pigeons.

OP posts: