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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Contact with older children after absence WIBU?

122 replies

Beckasaur · 28/07/2018 20:52

Emma and Dave (not their real names) have DD aged 10 and DS aged 12. They split 5 years ago. Dave has not seen the DCs for 3 years. The 2 years he did seem them he was inconsistent. Dave reckons Emma made it too difficult and Emma reckons Dave was messing her about and that once she put boundaries in place he bailed. Both have new partners and are in long term relationships with those partners. Dave pays maintenance in line with the CSA.

Dave now wants to start seeing the DCs. Emma wants Dave to write first and explain and say sorry for disappearing for the last few years and to write for a bit to show he is committed to seeing them. Dave feels they know and remember who he is and although he accepts the memories they have of him are both good and bad he doesn't want to write he just wants to arrange to see them. DS has said he doesn't want to see Dave. DD has said shell would like to see him. Dave doesnt only want to see one of them.

I am friends with both Emma and Dave, and frankly am a bit fed up of being stuck in the middle and trying to explain the opposing point of view. I can see why both of them are having the stance they are in part, but equally think they both being idiots. I am getting splinters form sitting on the fence on this, so thought I would put it to the MN jury ......

OP posts:

anotherangel2 · 30/07/2018 07:38

This story makes me angry and sad on behalf of those children and Emma who has to deal with the fall out.

For 5 years, half of his DD’s life Dave has failed to parent to his children. There is no excuse for his failure to do this. I would walk over burning coals to see my child. All he had to do was stick to arrangements and go to court if Emma was failing to make the children available for contact.

Dave can easily make this situation change. He can write a letter and start seeing his daughter straight away. He he choosing to sit on his arse and do nothing except badiuth Emma while she does all the parenting.

Dave is not someone I could be friends with never mind in a relationship with.

Aeroflotgirl · 30/07/2018 11:26

AuntieStella and gunnybear are you Dave btw. Thank goodness your views are in the minority. Poor Emma has had to pick up the pieces after Dave buggered off for 3 years abandoning his children, before then it certainly sounds like he messed about with contact, so ended up not seeing his kids, forcing Emma to quite rightly put her foot down and insist on boundaries so their kids do not get hurt.

Then after 3 years Dave waltzes in like nothing has happened, and wants to play happy families again. Totally disregarding his kids feelings and that of their mother who has raised them. She then insists quite rightly, that he should start slowly to get into contact by writing letters at first, so that he can slowly establish relationship on their terms. she is putting boundaries in place to protect them, their ds does not want to see him, and his daughter does, he throws his toys out of his pram and insists he won't see any of them, proving Emma right, that he is an unreliable deadbeat dad, who just cares about himself.

Dave needs to prove to his kids and to Emma that he can be a good dad, he is not only disrespecting his kids, but their mother who is raising them and picking up the pieces yet again. There are lots of Daves' about playing the woe is me card to people. The psycho ex, who won't let me see the kids, what he is failing to say is that he is an abusive wanker who lets his kids down time after time, and his ex has put her foot down!

Aeroflotgirl · 30/07/2018 11:28

No I could not be a friend of Dave, he is an utter wanker. Who refuses to apologise to his kids for buggering off, blaming their mother instead. He has failed on the first hurdle.

Aeroflotgirl · 30/07/2018 11:52

He says ..... its important for DS to see him - contact is in DSs best interests. DS will not reply to letters as he views his dad negatively. The only way to change that view is for him to spend time with his dad so that he can see dad has good points also. He cant see just DD because last time it caused hostility between DD and DS when DD wanted to see him and DS didnt. He doesnt want to come between the siblings, so its important that Emma makes them both come. Face to face contact is essential as the only way to replace DS negative memories is to create real positive ones. Its also important given he understands why DS might feel abandoned that he doesnt abandon DS again by only seeing DD. Also when DSs baby brother is born, if DS isnt seeing him he might feel replaced and it is important that that is not the case. Him and Emma allowed their personal feelings of each other to get the better of them last time.. They need to put that behind them and work together in the best interests of the children and that is for both children to see their father and his family

This is the most arrogant, selfish and self centred bit of tripe that I have seen for a long time. This is him theorising, this has not actually happened. It is just all about him and what he wants, nothing to do with his sons feelings, and that he left them for 3 years. Not one bit of remorse, I am not surprised Emma is skeptical. He is just full of crap.

Aeroflotgirl · 30/07/2018 11:55

Ds is onto him like a hawk, he has full measure of his deadbeat dad, even when he was in contact with them. I am not surprised that he dosen't want to see him. Emma cannot make them come, just shows how out of touch he is with his kids feelings.

AWomanIsAnAdultHumanFemale · 30/07/2018 12:04

There really should be some sort of compulsory 12 step program for assholes who abandon their kids and then want to restart contact. Like an awakeneing and understanding their own responsibility and consequences (to the child) of their actions.

My ex is a Dave. He fucked off for months, no contact, birthday cards, nothing, then texted one day out of the blue asking if he could pick up my eldest from school (no idea why just the eldest- they’re both his children) I didn’t respond. Found out from his mum that it was so he could tell DS he had a new baby sister and take him to meet her. So he genuinely planned to turn up at my son’s school without any notice to my son who hasn’t seen him in months and drop the bombshell that he had a sister and just take him to see her. Seriously! On what planet is that in any way kind to my son? Absolutely zero thought for how upset my son might be about that and never mind that my other son would be sitting at home wondering why the hell dad hadn’t taken him too and why he had to hear about his new sister from his brother. Selfish bastard.

Aeroflotgirl · 30/07/2018 12:27

Oh god AWomanIs, the arrogance of these Dave's, and pure selfishness. I am married to the kids dad, but know many friends with ex like Dave. One of them pleads poverty, doesn't pay maintaince, yet goes on holidays with his now girlfriend.

Downtheroadfirstonleft · 30/07/2018 12:32

If Emma was unreasonable 5 years ago, Dave should have gone to court to arrange access and continued to parent his kids. The fact he didn't, makes him a deadbeat dad.

He is now teaching his daughter that she is only worth visiting if her brother is with her and is emotionally blackmailing his son to make that happen. In my eyes, that makes Dave scum.

bastardkitty · 30/07/2018 12:35

YES!!!

Aeroflotgirl · 30/07/2018 12:37

Exactly Downtheroad, if he really wanted to see his kids, and felt Emma was preventing him, he could have gone to court, to establish in writing, regular consistent contact, but he didn't, he just buggered off. He caused the animosity between his kids,his behaviour, and is glossing over that and putting the blame on them and Emma. He does not deserve his kids.

Aeroflotgirl · 30/07/2018 12:38

He diden't want regular and consistent contact, just contact that suited him, he did not get that, so buggered off.

GeorgeIII · 30/07/2018 12:38

I wouldn’t get involved-if you speak to either just sympathise ‘Oh, that’s a shame,’ ime it’s not always one parent who’s the baddy.

LeighaJ · 30/07/2018 12:40

He Should apologize to both children because he isn't taking responsibility for not bothering to get court ordered contact just taking the blame their Mum easy road.

The son shouldn't be forced to see him so he should write to him, to apologise, maybe he'll change his mind.

WellThisIsShit · 30/07/2018 12:46

His justification only sounds good if you forget the children are three dimensional human beings, rather than toys, or pets.

How fucking arrogant that he believes a child should be forced to do something so important?! Disgusting. He talks like he can just reprogram the children, like their memories and trauma and lived experiences mean nothing! The harm that he’s done to them that they’ll carry with them for the rest of their lives is some kind of trivial nonsense that he can... by force, wipe away from their consciousness?!

Ugh. It’s really disgusting. It shows how arrogant he is.

And why must the daughters relationship with her father be sacrificed on the altar of the sons? Because the justification doesn’t stack up. Unless you understand that the daughter means nothing and can be put aside and picked up whenever. But the son must take priority... because he’s the one who’s playing hard to get I assume, and therefore everything becomes about him.

It’s fucked up.

The father is demanding that the mother joins in harming the child, and is the enemy unless she not just steps aside but actually joins in sacrificing the children’s autonomy and right to be equal human beings...

Until you wrote that ‘explanation’ I wasn’t quite sure what was happening, although it was clear that the mother wasn’t being as unreasonable as the father. But after seeing the fathers way of thinking, it’s damned clear what kind of person he is. And it’s not good.

Willyoujustbequiet · 30/07/2018 12:49

Dave is a deadbeat and a dick.

Get off the fence and tell him straight.

Aeroflotgirl · 30/07/2018 12:49

Yes if i were op, I would be distancing myself from Dave, and being more of a friend to Emma, she needs it.

gamerwidow · 30/07/2018 12:58

Dave needs to start putting his kids needs first and stop trying to score points over his ex like a twat.

MargaretCabbage · 30/07/2018 13:00

My dad was a Dave. Irregular contact for 3 years before he disappeared for another 3. He’d tell anyone that it was my mother making things hard for him, but the reality is that he couldn’t be bothered. He turned up after 3 years expecting we’d be delighted to see him, but even as a 10 year old I could see him for what he was and wasn’t prepared to be let down again, and we’ve had no contact for 22 years.

Dave hasn’t done enough, even if the mother isn’t faultless. It’s his fault if his children don’t want to see him.

FuckPants · 30/07/2018 13:05

Dave is a prick.

PrettyLovely · 30/07/2018 13:24

"There really should be some sort of compulsory 12 step program for assholes who abandon their kids and then want to restart contact. Like an awakeneing and understanding their own responsibility and consequences (to the child) of their actions."
I totally agree with this!

PrettyLovely · 30/07/2018 13:26

" How fucking arrogant that he believes a child should be forced to do something so important?! Disgusting. He talks like he can just reprogram the children, like their memories and trauma and lived experiences mean nothing! The harm that he’s done to them that they’ll carry with them for the rest of their lives is some kind of trivial nonsense that he can... by force, wipe away from their consciousness?! "

So true, Poor kids!

Graphista · 30/07/2018 18:52

Personally I think if you don't see your kids for 2 years you should lose some rights to see them.

It should be you contact the parent who stayed, asking NOT demanding IF the kids want to see YOU.

I've seen some horrendous cases of parents (inc women) abandoning their kids then tipping up 3, 5 even 10 years later, just expecting to pick up where they left off! No apology, not even explanation just "but I'm your mum/dad" no! You might be their father or mother - but mum/dad is the one that stayed and did the graft of raising the DC, put the time in during bad as well as good times. See it VERY frequently with men sodding off during the labour intensive baby/toddler years and then making a miraculous appearance when the DC hit the arguably easier school years. Conveniently avoiding the dirty nappy/broken sleep/measles years!

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