... about "natural birth" and "your body knows what to do"?

[ParsnipsAreTheDevil]

I keep seeing the whole "don't worry your body knows what to do" thing thrown at pregnant women and it was a massive part of the hypnobirthing course I did before
DS was born (he's 2 now). When it came to it it turned out my body didn't have a bloody clue what to do. In labour for 3 days, wasn't dilating, emergency c section and we both got sepsis. Felt like a massive failure afterwards thanks to the massive emphasis on natural birth and my body categorically NOT knowing what to do?

Aibu that what we should be saying to pregnant women is to keep an open mind about birth? I've met a few women since who had very similar experiences to me. Breathe the fecking baby out my arse.

I think YANBU.

But I also think it isn't as easier as that.

Your body CAN know what to do, but it isn't helpful to give that as an absolute.

My first birth was a forceps - after NCT classes - and by the time it got to the point, I didn't mind what they did to bring the labour to an end. I still believe that the hospital routine played a large part in that. They told me to go in when my waters broke before contractions had started, so I spent 12 hours with no food and was exhausted at the point when I needed my strength.

My second birth was a planned home delivery and (despite the midwife having her equipment ready for an episiotomy) happened with only a small tear on the site of the previous episiotomy.

Both babies were posterior presentation - which often means a slower labour. I remember the midwife saying 'He's turning!' just before the 2nd birth.

OP, you grew and gave birth to your baby, that is a wonderful accomplishment. People don't talk much about difficult births very much, but it can be really traumatic. Sheila Kitzinger started up some birth trauma counselling training years ago, but I don't know if such a thing exists now.

No amount of "hearing and coaching" would have stopped my baby being in the brow position . Had I not had an EMCS in a nice clean sterilised Western European operating theatre, he, and quite possibly I, would have died. One or both of us would have died if I'd been giving birth a hundred years ago or a few thousand miles further south.

I think it helps to understand the historical context of how women used to give birth before the 'natural birth' stuff came along.

Women used to be sedated or put to sleep so they were just bodies lying there, woke up to find the baby had been delivered. Queen Victoria used to be put out cold under chloroform, she was one of the first women to use it.
Even if not under general anaesthetic, they'd have pubes shaved and legs strapped into stirrups. Routine episiotomies. Doctors having all the power and talking about how they delivered the baby. Babies taken away at birth and kept in a nursery, only returned for feeding according to a schedule.

Basically women were treated like pieces of meat and thoroughly disempowered. Up until round about the 70s I think. Then there was a movement to give women more choice and more importance in the whole process, as well as bonding with the baby, encouraging breastfeeding etc.

I agree there is too much that gives women a fluffy idea of labour, but it's important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak. Statistically, birth with no or low interventions is the best option in terms of damage to mother and baby. C-sections are much more risky for infection, haemorrhage, hysterectomy etc. Obviously justified in many situations but if you just replaced so-called natural birth with c-sections tomorrow, more women and children would die.

But btw my body didn't have a clue what to do either and I had a c-section - still it was worth a try! I think all things being equal if I had another I'd try for VBAC instead of ELCS

YANBU. I didn't push enough because I'd believed the "your body knows what to do BS". Ended up with DS heart rate falling and an episiotomy. I could have avoided it if I hadn't believed this fallacy.

My first was back to back, no one mentioned that as being a thing and so when I went into labour I wasn't prepared for the pain. He also wasn't properly on the cervix so I was taking my time to dilate but my first contraction hurt as much as my last which was augmented with the drip turned right up. No one had mentioned that latent labour could hurt as much as the full blown thing but it did. Even better, due to ds's position, my legs would fold under me with every contraction. Getting stuck on a birthing ball is not fun, nor is being sent for a long walk around the hospital complex, amniotic fluid pouring out of you, clutching your husband with every contraction to make sure you don't fall flat on your face.

Dd I thought was back to back as all my contractions were in my back, pelvis and thighs, the same as with Ds but she was in an optimal position apparently. I just don't have an optimal pelvis...another thing no one mentioned prior to actually being in labour.

Ds I got fully dilated, pushed forcibly as my body never felt the urge and had failed forceps before an emcs. From start to finish it took 81 hours and I was in agony for most of them. My c-section recover was completely pain free in comparison.

Dd I went into labour before my planned section (can't even get that bit right...), was dilating much faster although with about as much help from her head and again it hurt like hell.

So 2 x emergency sections albeit very different experiences. I do struggle with feelings of failure with both because I read so many things implying it was down to you in my first pregnancy and I'm a control freak who believed that I could will it into working. The fact that I couldn't and then ds ended up in NICU because my waters had been gone so long made me feel absolutely horrendous and contributed to my mental health issues post delivery.

I'm a great fan of positive birth stories regardless of method of delivery and think that most types of birth can be positive but I can't stand lines like "your body knows what to do" (nope) and "your body won't grow a baby it can't birth".

if you just replaced so-called natural birth with c-sections tomorrow, more women and children would die

What scale are you looking at cholka? just in the UK, or worldwide? If all women worldwide were given Western-style CSs , rather than natural births, I would imagine that the rate of maternal and infant deaths would fall considerably.

No one had mentioned that latent labour could hurt as much as the full blown thing but it did.

Exactly!!! Thank you!!! And you don't get pain relief either because 'you're not in labour' even though you feel like you're going to pass out from the pain and are using up all the strength you need for the 'actual labour'. Bloody hell.

YANBU.

I believed all this crap for years because of NCT- the positive thing I would say is that it made me more confident to give birth, and my body did know what to do, but this was more luck than judgement!

Most women will have some kind of issue though purely because we are bipeds and also because we are leaving it later to have a first child, because more people are unfit and overweight to start with. A positive mindset is good but it only take you so far.

@DearTeddyRobinson

Woah. We have had the exact same experiences but I bled with but didn’t “release” my MMC. Oh god it was so painful, my heart goes out to you too, an unopening cervix isn’t fun.

Please may i ask; do you come from a family of “late bakers”? We are planning DC3 after two CS’. I dearly want to try for a V2BAC but I feel risks are too high.

To answer the OP, I can’t really trust my body as it seems to not want to deliver at all. Granny had 6 kids naturally, all late. I think we may be genetically predisposed to go to 43w but it’s too big a risk for me to take. And I want four.

YANBU. Why do these natural birth mamas have to push their bloody agendas on the rest of us. So you had a vaginal birth and breastfed and your body works so much better than someone who didn't. Fucking good for you 👏🏻

My body kind of new what to do... although it never knows when to bloody start. I always need to be started (I have two children and had a MM too). Once they have started me and popped my waters it pretty much happens pretty quickly.

I honestly felt that from the moment I walked in the hospital I wasn't treated like a human being with a brain of my own. Nobody at the classes tells you that you have the right to question or refuse procedures, once you are through those doors, I felt like I was in prison, just being told I was going to be induced, not being asked if I was ok with it, getting told when I could shower, getting shouted at because I laid on my bed the day after I came out of high dependency, being told to shut up & stop moaning when I was in tears, desperate to go home. I just felt that nobody cared.

As for my body knowing what to do, my body didn't get chance to find out if it knew what to do & what happened left me so traumatised I honestly think my body made sure that it wasn't ever going to go through that again.

Yes, actually having my first child I had the impression (from NCT classes) that contractions were like strong period pain, and not like having a boulder grinding against my spine and organs on the inside. The pushing out bit was a fucking breeze compared with contractions. I had an epidural but being misled about the pain level made me actually more panicky and that perhaps something was wrong? Also I'd been told that a first labour would likely be around 24 hours. Mine was a quarter of that. I thought if it's like this at the start, and I'm this knackered, how can I carry on for 24 hours? So I went to epidural, do not pass go.

Whereas second time round it was still painful but I knew it was "just" a baby coming out. Also what did really help was breathing through it, but a lot of it was just not panicking as I'd done it before. And it was likely to be

Nobody at the classes tells you that you have the right to question or refuse procedures, once you are through those doors

To be fair I was told that in NCT classes. I had my birth plan and I was bloody well sticking to it. And I did!

Everyone has different experiences around birth and no woman should feel like a failure.
I spent most of my adult life being absolutely terrified of giving birth due to remembering comments made by my mother when I was younger that I wouldn’t be able to cope with the pain of giving birth etc etc. I was really frightened.
Anyway although scared I had an open mind to have any pain relief going and I would try to be the best mother I could etc. But when it came down to it. Although I had a very long labor especially with my first one. I was somehow miraculously able to breath through my contractions, stay in control believing and knowing that each one was bringing me closer to having my baby. In my experience labor was much easier than I had worried and my body did somehow know what to do.
However, a friend I met at ante natal classes had high expectations and she was determined to have proper nappies, natural child birth, she had a birthing plan, wanted a water birth, to breastfeed etc etc etc. It turned out she wasn’t able to do any of the above due to complications and however much I tried to reassure her and play down my birthing experience and I didn’t breadt feed or use natural nappies she still said she felt like a failure and this was so important to her she ended up quite depressed.
I think women should support each other more. Another friend at a first time Mum group was bullied into breast feeding. Her baby ended up malnourised until she finally was allowed to admit it wasn’t working by the medical professionals.

The consultant who decided I needed an EMCS didn't even speak to me, he told my husband & my mum "She's going to theatre now for a section" never even spoke to me & disappeared, I never saw him again. I felt like I wasn't part of the equation. As for a birth plan, I gave it to the midwife with my notes when I went in, she never looked at it, left it on a table & moved me to another room, it's probably still there 14 years later.

Nobody at the classes tells you that you have the right to question or refuse procedures, once you are through those doors

I was told this at NCT classes.

Something that was interesting in the Sundin book (Birth Skills) is that she very briefly mentions breathing but basically says that the fact most natural childbirth classes focus so heavily on breathing was because these techniques were developed in the 70s where women were often disallowed from leaving a bed, and were expected to be quiet so that they didn't disturb other labouring women. I think it was a lot more medicalised and process-driven in the US and Australia (Sundin is Australian) than it was in the UK but even here, there were aspects of that - so at the time, breathing was basically the only tool women COULD use to try to stay in control of their own experience and panic etc.

In reality breathing techniques are not enough for the majority of people. They can be helpful in terms of giving you something else to focus on, but it's not going to be enough when you get tired, or have a baby in an awkward position, or have extra pressures like time pressure or have stronger contractions due to induction or whatever. And I don't like books, courses, websites, whatever which state categorically that this is enough and imply that if it isn't, it's because you're not doing it right, or your environment was wrong or whatever. (See also: breastfeeding, gentle parenting). It's way too pervasive and enticing a belief to inexperienced mothers and it's actually just a LIE and I find that really infuriating, actually. It's almost patronising, but worst, it makes people feel that they have failed when really they were just promised something which is usually an anomaly.

I also don't think it helps to think about birth as an experience or something which should be "lovely", I think it helps (at least it helps me) to approach it as something which is going to be challenging, much like a mountain climb, or an exam, or a tricky phase of parenting. If you approach it like that then (IME) you're much more likely to see things like induction, pain relief etc as tools which may help you through in certain circumstances. The same with stamping or vocalising or birth pools or whatever you need to do. Then, yes, you can absolutely come out at the end going OMG, I survived that, I did it, that is amazing - which is a positive experience, but it's not likely to be lovely like a spa day or a holiday or a wedding or whatever. I think that's a misconception, and a misleading one.

Another friend at a first time Mum group was bullied into breast feeding. Her baby ended up malnourised until she finally was allowed to admit it wasn’t working by the medical professionals.

I felt like that about weaning, both DD1 and DD2 were ready, I could tell instinctively, at 4 months. But with DD1 I followed the advice to only give baby rice, which she hated, at about 5 months. Left it until 6 months to give her purees, which she then loved, and appeared so much more satisfied and happy. I felt sad that there had been a couple of months when she was clearly hungry (with hindsight), and breast milk alone was not satisfying her.

With DD2 she was bigger to start with and a hungry and strong baby. It was even more crystal clear that she needed something more than milk, and she practically bit the spoon off at 4 months when I gave her pureed veg, and could eat a good quantity of it from the start without ill effect.

Thank you Babel - my due date is in 4 weeks too but I'm being realistic here They'll induce me by the 3rd if I've not started by then. So 5 weeks max.

See I felt I was given so many horror stories by general people and by the nhs classes I was petrified. I was having nightmares of everything going so wrong down to then needing a csection and basically dying.

However once I was in labour this weird kind of wave just came over I was calm and I was relaxed and my body pushed by itself, I didn’t get to the hospital till 9cm and only felt uncomfortable.

I don’t know why my experience of birth shouldn’t be shared yet the horrors should be, even my “perfect” delivery wasn’t a textbook one as I don’t actually contract regularly so Midwife’s tend to think I’m in early stages rather than ready to deliver. I’ve also had a child born that came out sideways if that makes sense so say facing a wall not the floor or ceiling. We are all different and birth differently no need to rubbish anyone’s way or beliefs around giving birth.

You have two problems here, one frightening new mothers so much that they become terrified of childbirth and have a terrible time, two, pretending that nothing ever gets difficult or dangerous so when it does mothers are disappointed and upset.
The reality, most babies arrive safely, sometimes things get difficult and health professional, for the most part, will do everything to prioritise a live baby, even if that means the birth experience is poor. The price is paid and if the mother has not been sold a pipe dream, she will know this is the best option

YANBU I couldn't agree more OP...it's all 'you will know what to do when the time comes' until the shit hits the fan, then it's not! Best advice, like you say, is to keep an open mind and not build up unrealistic birth expectations, only to feel guilty afterwards. I too ended up having a c section and feeling weird about it afterwards, I felt like I missed out on some precious moment bringing my baby into the world myself, but the reality was I did it for my health and the health of my baby, even though it wasn't my first choice of birth.

But really, who gets a choice? It's all down to luck and circumstances.