... about "natural birth" and "your body knows what to do"?

[ParsnipsAreTheDevil]

I keep seeing the whole "don't worry your body knows what to do" thing thrown at pregnant women and it was a massive part of the hypnobirthing course I did before
DS was born (he's 2 now). When it came to it it turned out my body didn't have a bloody clue what to do. In labour for 3 days, wasn't dilating, emergency c section and we both got sepsis. Felt like a massive failure afterwards thanks to the massive emphasis on natural birth and my body categorically NOT knowing what to do?

Aibu that what we should be saying to pregnant women is to keep an open mind about birth? I've met a few women since who had very similar experiences to me. Breathe the fecking baby out my arse.

YANBU. My body tried to kill me with HELLP syndrome

YANBU

All of this stuff really annoys me.
There's a reason historically that childbirth was one of the biggest killer of women and even in as recent as 2017, 830 women a day still die from pregnancy/childbirth.

I don't think calm or easy birth experiences shouldn't be shared but they shouldn't be promised. The fact is most people find birth hard and it is extra hard if you're expecting it to be easy or manageable or straightforward, and then it's not.

If you are expecting to need coping strategies and you find you don't need them - that's a fantastic bonus. If you find you do need them and you have them - you'll likely be alright. If you never prepared them because you were expecting something easy and perfect - you'll struggle if you do find you need them.

@BertieBotts

If I could write a page of “yes, 100%” tomboth of your last posts I would.

Breathing isn't enough but, without getting all earth-motherish it and visualisation techniques will help some people. Yeah, good point about regarding it as a challenge! I had run one marathon and had been up and down a few mountains in my 20s which helped. Think of it as a Iron Man triathlon!

It wasnt true the first time but it did seem to be the second time... was particularly surprised about the 'pushing' which sounds like you are supposed to be doing something but when it came down to it I didnt 'push' at all... well not on purpose... my body did 'just do it' and all I had to do was let it.

With my first though yes my body did not know what was going on at all... was induced two weeks late and then was in labour for 3 days on the drip... almost had to have a section

Obviously justified in many situations but if you just replaced so-called natural birth with c-sections tomorrow, more women and children would die.

Elective cesareans have the lowest maternal and infant death rate.

FluctuatNecMergitur Fri 27-Jul-18 11:44:12

if you just replaced so-called natural birth with c-sections tomorrow, more women and children would die

What scale are you looking at cholka? just in the UK, or worldwide? If all women worldwide were given Western-style CSs , rather than natural births, I would imagine that the rate of maternal and infant deaths would fall considerably.

No scale in front of me but I've been reading up a bit on VBAC, for the most part c-section carries much more serious risk than vaginal birth. Obviously not if there is another health condition that complicates things. I was thinking of UK births.

I think there are more basic things that would help mothers and babies in developing countries - for one, having access to prenatal/postnatal care and an actual hospital is not a given. If there is a hospital they are not always clean or safe.

MrSpock Fri 27-Jul-18 12:57:43

Obviously justified in many situations but if you just replaced so-called natural birth with c-sections tomorrow, more women and children would die.

Elective cesareans have the lowest maternal and infant death rate.

Really? Do you have a link or something?

The bizarre thing is 'natural' has all these positive and beautiful connotations for people.

Nature is fucking brutal. As humans we're designed to procreate, but nature couldn't care less about the plentiful casualties along the way.

YANBU, OP. Agree with everything you said. Also did hypnobirthing with DS1. I and the other lady who was doing the course totally believed in it, followed it all to the letter and had horrific, traumatic births, through which we were completely calm. The sense of shock afterwards was extreme. Both of us ended up with PND. 🤷🏼‍♀️

cholka

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1584671/Women-choosing-caesarean-have-low-death-rate.html

First time around my body was clueless, and needed firm direction from the midwives and obstetrician about exactly what to do to expel a very reluctant baby. Second time round it was as if nature had awakened something that I was in no way involved with and DS2 arrived quite quickly with not too much discomfort, I remember the contractions as huge muscular sweeping waves almost as a bystander. Maybe our brains have evolved t such an extent that without experience our minds block out the instinct?

if someone is in established labour and left for that long then that is a serious case of negligence.

If your baby is malpositioned then you can be contracting for days in agonising pain every 2 minutes without ever going past 3cm. But it's ok as you're not in 'established labour' - why does the 4cm point matter if someone has been in agony for so long?

But it's ok as you're not in 'established labour' - why does the 4cm point matter if someone has been in agony for so long?

Agreed.

Weird to hear so many women say they had midwives/doctors deny they were in labour.

I started having contractions when I was in for routine monitoring (as overdue) - obviously early but strong, painful contractions and it was agony lying on my back on the bed through them. Midwife told me that they absolutely weren’t contractions, just “little tightenings that are a bit uncomfortable” and told me I absolutely would not go into labour naturally at ALL, because women who went very overdue never did.

Baby's that are back to back are usually like that for a while, where you told by your community midwife to do any exercises or positions to turn baby?

My ds was also back to back with his head at a very awkward angle. It wasn't even mentioned to me until they were telling me I would need epidural, attempting to manually turn then down to theatre for rotational forceps. I'd been contracting for a whole night and day by this point. Was sent home
the first time I went in (contractions every 3 minutes at that point), they tried to fob me off second time too but I was insistent, they ran me a bath and left me alone with DH for hours, no pain relief as I wasn't at the magical 4cm when they had checked.

When I looked back at my notes the baby's position was mentioned as 'pos' at my last few midwife checks, have no idea why they didn't mention it to me and what it could mean for birthing.

YADNBU I remember sitting in NCT class doing a 'practice contraction' breathing and listening to an affirmation that my baby new what it was doing and my body knew what it was doing. I thought at the time that was highly unlikely and the sort of thought that would only be reassuring to the sort of person who had was good at PE. I also read books about positive birth which talked about reframing your pain and that you are not in that much pain when you are in labour as you only have pain when you have a contraction. Well I didn't have a gap between contractions they just kept coming. The midwife told me I couldn't be in established labour as I was a first time Mum. She was so confident of that fact that she missed the birth!
In one sense my body knew what it was doing as I pushed the baby out without any assistance. On the other hand I tore badly as I pushed him out so fast. Apparently the position I was in made me tear. My baby needed help with breathing and didn't cry for a long time. Apparently that is common he is fine but when we were shown around the maternity unit they said it's not likely that you will need the resuscitation equipment.
In the past a lot of people had birth injuries that weren't treated. I remember reading that Queen Caroline died of birth injuries 11 years after the birth of her 8th child. She had been living with them that long.
I think that it is good to be aware of things that can help you have a better birth but be open to the fact that it might not go to plan. Most of it is out of our hands. A lot of people do have positive experiences but the ones who tell others that they could have had a good birth like them if they had had a positive attitude need to realise that that is not always the case.

Thanks MrSpock, interesting

I'm going to have to look into it all a bit more if I ever get pregnant again and need to decide about VBAC or ELCS

My body didn't know what to do either. I thought I'd be fine with the pain- had to go in for pethadine at 2cm dilated. Got to 4 cm 5 hours later and never made it further. Midwife broke my waters during an exam, had more pethadine and an epidural (super recommend!), started on hormone drip after 12 hours as baby's heart rate dipped but it then continued to dip with contractions. 18 hours after active labour started and two pulls of the emergency buzzer by the (amazing) midwife later and we agreed for an emergency section.

Luckily, although I envisaged a nice water birth with a puff of gas an air, I was open to anything as needed and my birth plan (not written down just discussed with partner and midwife) was: go in without a baby, come out with one, whatever happens in between is ok (although I really really didn't want instrumental delivery). I think this should be encouraged more as I know many women who feel like they've failed after their very specific plan didn't happen.

If your baby is malpositioned then you can be contracting for days in agonising pain every 2 minutes without ever going past 3cm

That's exactly what happened to me and no one cared or listened.

Like most things on the internet, you'll hear polarised opinions.

Either the most wonderful and calm natural births or the most hideous and shocking assisted births.

No-one really ever posts about their mediocre experiences (granted I don't think labour is ever going to be described as mediocre but you get my drift)

I had one long, arduous, exhausting labour (51h) and managed a natural delivery but was very close to being assisted. Forceps in theatre or a emcs.

I had one quick, "body did knew what it needed to do" Labour

I also had a planned induction, that resulted in baby coming very unexpectidly fast (I went from niggles for 22 hours to delivering in about 30 minutes)

In my friendship circle we have every imaginable experience. Home birth, elcs, failed home birth resulting in being blue lighted for emcs, VBAC, quick delivery not even making it to hospital, induction, augmented labour, forceps delivery, ventouse delivery, hypnobirthing, every type of pain relief, no pain relief (and sadly we also have experience of stillbirth in our circle) but as women we support each other's experiences. We don't compare or compete.

Women can be so nasty to each other. Fancy making a woman feel bad for how she delivered her baby???

Maybe your body knew what is was doing but not everyone has the same experience.

I rarely talk about my labours with certain friends (a few have had PTSD after their experiences) and I would hate to make them feel worse.

Cholka it’s one of the reasons I chose an ELCS last time and will choose it again. Definitely worth looking into as the NHS don’t disclose this, annoyingly.

It's a balance isn't it.
I think being calm and positive before has got to be a good thing.
How can you do that if you know lots of women's bodies don't know what to do, or only do for some deliveries?

YANBU, such stuff over looks the fact that human reproduction is set up to cope with a high mortatility rate for both mothers and DC. Current survival rates are not the natural intended norm.