... about "natural birth" and "your body knows what to do"?

[ParsnipsAreTheDevil]

I keep seeing the whole "don't worry your body knows what to do" thing thrown at pregnant women and it was a massive part of the hypnobirthing course I did before
DS was born (he's 2 now). When it came to it it turned out my body didn't have a bloody clue what to do. In labour for 3 days, wasn't dilating, emergency c section and we both got sepsis. Felt like a massive failure afterwards thanks to the massive emphasis on natural birth and my body categorically NOT knowing what to do?

Aibu that what we should be saying to pregnant women is to keep an open mind about birth? I've met a few women since who had very similar experiences to me. Breathe the fecking baby out my arse.

I had a’natural birth’ but only because my son shot out in 4 hours and I had no choice but to crack on without any pain relief except gas and air for the last hour and a half. I handled it because the end was in sight. There no way I could have done that for a much longer period. The only thing that works about hypnobirth is calming you down before labour and making you less anxious. You can’t hypnytise yourself out of labour pain. It bloody hurts! But you can learn to approach it calmly.

The better hypnobirth stuff focuses on all types of birth and emphasises how much of a Lottery it is. The worst ones state that you can some how get a intervention free, painless birth by positive affirmation. These stories make women feel like failures.

The care you get from the midwives is crucial to the whole experience I think.

They didn't believe I was in labour because I wasn't dilating so that was pretty shit.

YANBU. My body definitely hadn't a clue. If it wasn't for modern medical intervention it is likely that either me or the baby (or both) wouldn't have survived. (DS has CP from the complications at birth) Let's face it over the centuries there have been countless fatalities of either mother or infant at birth. As others have said, a lot of it is glossed over and you're expected to pop out a baby and bounce back in a couple of hours and if you don't you're made to feel like a wimp or a failure. I honestly didn't know it was possible to have that kind of pain and not be dead!!

The better hypnobirth stuff focuses on all types of birth and emphasises how much of a Lottery it is. The worst ones state that you can some how get a intervention free, painless birth by positive affirmation.

I think the course I did - which was an NHS one at my local hospital - would claim it did the first, but veered a bit close to the second. For instance, the course book insisted you could use it if induced, but when I thought I was going to be induced (was scheduled to be induced at term but went into labour six days early) I suddenly noticed that not one of the approximately twenty 'positive birth stories' in the book featured an induction. They also insisted that it was no problem that four of the six of us in the group were high risk, but then went on endlessly about the birth pool that we weren't allowed to use and presented this as the solution to all labour issues.

YANBU. I think women should be fully prepared for every eventuality rather than believing they can have some airy fairy delivery complete with whale music and incense sticks . It’s nice to dream but in reality, it’s just not a pleasant experience.

As a midwife I also find alot of women are totally underprepared and the NHS is also not able to care properly for ppl in the latent phase. The OP says she was in labour for 3 days, and this is something I hear often...but it isn't really correct - if someone is in established labour and left for that long then that is a serious case of negligence.

Bodies can get on with it, mostly. One of the bits of info I found most reassuring when pregnant was that a friend of a friend had given birth while in a coma, so obviously she was not consciously doing anything and it proves bodies know what to do.
Just that bodies aren't perfect and leaving it to them leads to way more dead babies (especially first ones) and birth injuries than anyone would like, especially when medical care is available.

The hard bit is figuring out when a birth is changing from one that should be left to get on with it, to one that needs intervention, and effectively communicating that at a time of high emotion and distraction, when people perceive messages in different ways.

They didn't believe I was in labour because I wasn't dilating so that was pretty shit.

That's interesting - I was just chatting to DH about this thread and he said that the point where he thought it all went wrong is when they sent me home without examining me - in hindsight I'm certain I was in active labour, and I gave birth six hours later. As I posted above it took them quite a while to examine me even when I went back in, and when it turned out I was fully dilated and pushing. He pointed out that that destroyed any chance I had of trusting my body, as they kept telling me I was wrong about what I was feeling, and I hadn't thought about it like that but maybe he has a point - interesting how many of us on this thread have mentioned feeling 'disbelieved'.

On the other hand, the midwife I had once I was finally put in a delivery room was excellent and I instantly liked and trusted her (even though she told me to push, which the hypnobirthing class had said was the devil's work!), which again may have helped me end up in a place where I felt fairly neutral about the birth rather than seeing it as a wholly negative experience - so that also suggests how crucial the care you receive is.

I felt like I heard lots of horror stories before birth actually and was pretty terrified. The worst place of all for horror stories is MN in my experience

Having said that, I think anything which puts the responsibility solely on women for how childbirth (and breastfeeding) turn out, is wrong. When used correctly, I think hypnobirthing is a useful way to have control over your reactions but there's nothing which can actually control what happens in labour. So much is down to luck.

Whenever someone says "childbirth is the most natural thing in the world" I always think "dying in childbirth is pretty damn natural too..."

It's astonishing how many mothers seem to feel in some way that they "failed" either by not having a "natural enough" birth or because breastfeeding didn't work out. It's ridiculous how women are set up to feel they did something wrong right from day one.

I usually hide the pregnancy threads for that reason!

I always have to remind myself that ignorance is bliss, especially from the first time mums insisting they won't have surgical intervention or assisted deliveries and will listen to whalemusic while chanting.......

I was horribly unprepared for the labour I had with my 1st. 4 day induction, drip, failed epidural, failed ventouse and forceps in theatre with sky high BP and a massive PPH for a final hurrah. DH said he went home and was sick afterwards, and couldn't stop shaking. He thought I was dying, and nothing had prepared him for standing in theatre watching my blood pool out over the floor. We need to be far more practical and realistic with parents to be.

if someone is in established labour and left for that long then that is a serious case of negligence.

I was stuck at 3cm for 3 days because baby was back to back and would not move. He was totally stuck.They kept sending me home. I had contractions every 30 seconds for 48 hours on the trot, that is not an exaggeration. Kept being told to go home and have paracetamol/a bath.

Then I was finally examined, DS was in distress and his heart rate was dropping so they whipped me off for an emergency C section.

I don't know how many of you are "instamum" followers but IMHO the "trend" at the moment is WAY in favour of woo hypnobirthing than stuffy old "medicalised" births.

I was also disbelieved, I was told I wasn’t dialating (so not in active labour) and they didn’t examine me at all (I think to lower risk of infection, water broke preterm) By the time I was dialated I was screaming for an epidural and they wouldn’t even give me paracetamol as they still maintained I was only getting into the early stages of labour! Once the midwifes actually looked and said I was nearly ready for pushing I was ecstatic that the end was in sight, and felt I didn’t need the epidural after all. In a way I suppose I was lucky that I had a bit of an accidental natural labour, I probably would have got an epidural if offered earlier and considering I had real trouble feeling when to push anyway I don’t think it would have been a good method of pain relief for me. I’m sure I’d have needed intervention.

I've been reading this book called Birth Skills and it's quite emphatic about the fact that labour is hard and overwhelming and that the level of pain usually triggers your "I'm injured" instincts - which makes you tense up and get still - which is exactly what you should not do. This was EXACTLY what happened to me in my first labour and I was simply lucky to meet a midwife who recognised what was happening and slowly coached me into coping techniques which helped me stay in control, instead. If I hadn't have met her at the time that I did I'm sure that I would have continued along the path of not coping and ended up having quite a traumatic experience.

So I've found it much much more helpful than reading hypnobirthing and floaty "natural/positive" birth books - it's more about roaring and stamping. It also mentions various realities of birth for a lot of people like monitoring, IVs, having waters broken - just as matter of fact extra things that you might have to deal with which are fine, not as horror of horrors which you should fight and argue about - erm right, because adrenaline and fear is great during childbirth?

The problem with the natural birth movement is that in seeking to reduce/eliminate fear of the birth process and convince the medical profession that excessive intervention is unnecessary, they inadvertently create fear around the idea of any intervention whereas sometimes it's actually the exact way to create a calm, controlled and safe option in comparison to what the alternative is.

I think we had to go through a transition - from a time where birth was quite primitive and dangerous to an extreme where it was very overmanaged to find out the downsides of that, but the movement to "fix" this by dividing into two camps is outdated IMO and counterproductive. What the modern generation of women ought to demand is evidence based practice, support, communication, respect and information.

I was stuck at 3cm for 3 days because baby was back to back and would not move. He was totally stuck.They kept sending me home. I had contractions every 30 seconds for 48 hours on the trot, that is not an exaggeration. Kept being told to go home and have paracetamol/a bath.

I was high risk and the monitors I had regularly showed contractions, and I was screaming on the floor crying in agony. They said because I wasn’t dialated, to go home.

My son was back to back. I had an elective cesarean booked for the week after, and they eventually moved it slightly closer. He came out distressed. Wonder why.

I gave birth on Sunday night via induction, and while I got very lucky and had a quick labour, my body was barely giving me a break in between contractions. They were absolute agony, and at one point I was screaming the place down! I can guarantee that no hypnobirthing class would have dulled that pain!

Is that the juju sandin book bertie? I hear good things about it

as said before many women dies or suffered permanent lifechanging injury before the modern medical midwifery existed. My dc1 was breech I was induced (42 weeks) & had forceps - yes I had stiches & it wasn't pleasant but I had other dc she was/is fine I heard recently of another mother who believed that even though her dc was breech she wanted a homebirth she had to be rushed to hospital because of haemorrhage & her dc is permanently severely disabled both physical and mentally - mother is vegan & an anti-vax too - the idea that natural is right is so dangerous to the child because people base many of these ideas on really iffy philosophy with no scientific basis - which is not to say that there are not mistakes & that we should read up (from well sourced research) about choices.

mother is vegan & an anti-vax too

Of course she is. Selfish woman.

And yes I totally agree - the pendulum needs to come to rest somewhere where what’s best for the individual woman is. That may be natural, it may be a cs, of anything in between.

What’s crucial is that women are given full accurate information before hand, so they can make choices that are right for them. The concept of ongoing consent is often ignored and women can be left feeling shocked and traumatised.

Haven’t RTWT but agree with others who mention that the hypnobirthung approach is supposed to help you approach with less fear. If you are extremely scared with high levels of stress hormones, are shallow breathing etc I think birth would be more difficult / stall. To approach it thinking that your body is capable of birthing, that the majority of women can give birth without intervention and that the pain is useful and finite can only be a good thing. Not that we can always control how we feel and what happens - if we are scared we can’t just ‘stop’ and if interventions are needed we have to accept that they are needed. But it’s better to have that mindset rather than a catastrophic one.
Just for context I did hypnobirthing course, ended up with a no-labour Caesarian. Next child was home water-birth (Vbac), last child was premature birth in hospital.

My body panicked and went into spontaneous labour at 34 weeks. I think my body is a bit thick!! It also panicked and overproduced milk... Perhaps it was trying to feed me and him? Maybe it just got confused.

YANBU. My body didn't know what to do either. No urge to push for any of my 3 babies. 2 of them b2b so just felt so unnatural and unbelievably painful and frightening.

YANBU. I had 3 day labour, got 'stuck' at 8cm so had to go on the hormone drip and an assisted delivery. I was told by one midwife my contractions were 'a bit rubbish' even though they hurt to the point of screaming (I suppose most things would hurt to the point of screaming on the third day with no sleep)

The mistake I made was listening to the whole 'it's mind over matter' bollocks the second time. Everyone told me its much easier the second time as well. Only two day labour this time (yey!)I got stuck at 8 cm, had the hormone drip etc etc, same as the first time. My body clearly just either gets tired quicker than its supposed to o doesn't make enough hormone. Or I am really weak minded so mind over matter doesn't work for me. But I still feel guilty that I couldn't get through it and had so much pain relief and help. Not sure what would have happened to me in the olden days.

The only thing is I have met quite a few people who found the slow breathing thing really really helped them and they did pretty much breathe the baby out, and they loved the whole thing. The kind of messages you're talking about did really help them so it would be a shame to stop this completely.

I don't know what the answer is as nobody knows what kind of labour they're going to have or how they will react to it beforehand - it's so far out of anything they've experienced they don't know whether the mind over matter stuff will help them or make them feel shit if it goes wrong

One of the hypnobirthing mantras pinned up in the delivery room was "I trust that my body and my baby know what to do". Well, my progress slowed down and despite having my waters broken, I never got beyond 8cm and had an EMCS. My baby was back-to-back (anterior placenta), so it seems that neither of us knew what to do.

My baby's fine and I recovered well, so we're a lot luckier than many (the childbirth injury thread is terrifying). And yet, I do have a sense that my body let me down and I failed. I'd like to speak to a doctor about this as I think that might help.