To think a lot of people are jealous of teachers' holidays but...

[Pengggwn]

...too bitter about it to admit that they wouldn't be teachers themselves?

Just that really.

I have seen so many comments and threads aimed at dissecting teachers' pay and conditions to a forensic level, people complaining that teachers are available over the summer to answer their queries, people arguing that teachers should be working anyway or claim to be working even when they're not (I'm not, at least not for the next month).

And yet, we are in the middle of a teacher recruitment and retention crisis. We can't recruit and keep well-qualified teachers.

Where are all the volunteers??

"I work in the city - my contact officially gives 9-5 as my working hours, I work till the wee hours often. I often work on my days off and holidays. "

Then you are either well paid or a mug.

" That’s modern working life."

In highly paid jobs maybe.

Boney. Capability etc may well be an outcome (a lengthy, time consuming and difficult process which also has to be managed by that team leader/manager) but if the team doesn’t achieve the results then of course the manager is held accountable for that....it’s what they get paid for after all.

PRP could be based on the reality of kids lives. So the student who is dealing with an alcoholic mother and a gang member brother should get marks for just being safe with us in school a few times a week. Or the terminally ill student who manages less than 30% attendance should get marks for smiling. Or the student who has dealt with horrific child abuse but was predicted all A*s should get marks for us keeping them alive. How do you measure this stuff ???

Dorsetdays

So what is your PRP based on in the charity sector?

And in most sectors if you don’t achieve the results you wouldn’t get any increase regardless of the reason.

The whole point of PRP is that they are personal SMART targets you should get to argue your point.

Then you are either well paid or a mug

So, by your own reasoning, are teachers well paid or mugs?

Mugs. Most definitely. But so are lots of professionals. It's called caring

as if such things were unique to teaching

I've never heard a teacher claim that working unpaid overtime or having PRP were unique to teaching. Of course they aren't. I think lots of people on this kind of thread simply invent the idea that teachers think no job except teaching is hard.

I don't think teachers are very well-paid considering their level of education, responsibility and overtime though. Do you?

If teaching were reasonably-paid and a not particularly difficult or stressful job, then thousands of teachers would not be breathing a sigh of relief as they quit the profession for good, get a different job and leave schools relying on NQT cannon-fodder and cover supervisors.

Mumsneedwine in the same way we have to ‘measure’ our Housing Officers against various targets (many government set for funding purposes) when the reality of their day to day work can mean dealing with ASB related to re-housing a peodophile, helping someone seek refuge from serious domestic violence, cuckooing or presenting information to court on child abuse.

Most jobs don’t fit ‘standards’ but PRP can still work in any setting if you want it to.

Dorsetdays

You seem to be missing the point that teachers are not managers. They/we are not dealing with adults but with children that have a range of maturity, ability, SEND, home lives etc. that they are struggling to come to terms with.
30 different pupils means 30 + different issues that can change on a daily (if not more regular basis).
Putting forward that it works well in industry/sectors does not mean that it works well in a school setting.

@ohreallyohreallyoh any team management or Director role your performance is determined by the performance of other people in your team, my husband was responsible for a team of 50 at one point. I know how crap it is if you have a bad bunch (I can remember when my DH has a smaller team and he was constantly having to spend hours redoing their work for clients) and I do sympathise but it’s not exclusive to teaching. I won’t do team management anymore, only way I would do it is if I got to recruit from scratch and not have an inherited team, it’s meant a slight pay cut in the industry I work in but it’s less stressful. At least you get to get rid of them after a yr!! It can take a lot longer than that to performance manage a poor employee.

It's not even the pay. No one goes into teaching to be rich. It's the lack of funding at the moment - how am I supposed to have 34 kids in a lab safety. We use fire and chemicals and it's frankly terrifying as some of them think ooh fire. Let's see what havoc we can cause. I want them to enjoy school, achieve, learn about themselves but most importantly become awesome humans. But I have so little time now to listen. I need to listen as these kids sometimes have no one else who will. Teaching is so much more than just your subject, it's about ensuring all students are allowed to reach their potential as people. And yes, I have drunk gin.

When I was a freelance, I worked every hour available including Christmas and Boxing day, because that was the money hour. I hardly worked at all from end May to September, but what I earned between Sept and May had to be spread across the year. It was wonderful.

Boney. Not missing the point at all, I never said teachers are managers (although clearly some must be). I was simply responding to the point that was stated re ‘in no other job is the outcome dependant on 30 other people’.

However, the average teacher salary actually easily equates to the average managers salary in my sector and any team is made up of individuals who all have their own issues and problems too so, again, not sure how that is so different.

As I said before PRP can work in any setting, it’s about how it’s implemented and what measures are agreed.

@BlondeVolvo I don’t disagree with you - im sure most people work hard at what they do.

I just don’t think that teachers should come under fire for the holidays etc etc when we don’t actually get paid for them and MOST of us work a hell of a lot more hours than we are contracted to.

My husband is not a teacher and he works more hours than me and has less holidays but he also gets paid more than me and either gets paid for his overtime or his hours back in leui.

And it's an awesome job. Just ran into one of my students on way home and got a 'hey miss you look sick'. I think that's a good thing 😎. I am a G.

Love it! The day two very cool year 10s asked where I got my outfit from was fab!

One of my leaving cards attached.

No one becomes a teacher to get rich.

@Brigante9 that is one of the most fab leaving cards I've ever seen! 😃
I might make a few of those for colleagues who are retiring next session and a few that day we are glad they're leaving as they're a complete tosser/arsehole/lazy fucker

Dorsetdays

The difference is between adult and child and the control measures that each has in place.

As I said before PRP can work in any setting, it’s about how it’s implemented and what measures are agreed.

And I have said that the way PRP is implemented in schools is wrong.

My school refuses to use PRP. Because it makes the bottom sets v unattractive. I teach the 15 most challenging boys in year 10 and it's hard work just to prevent them killing each other each week. But oh they are fun !! None will reach their targets - not going to happen even if I worked 200 hours a week. But I will work my ass off to ensure they leave with GCSEs, and more importantly a bit of self confidence and control. How do you suggest I am paid performance wise for this lot ? I'm genuinely interested as at the moment the only way is GCSE results. But I'm taking on gangs, drugs, negative/absent parents and I have them 3 hours a fortnight. What should my PRP be based on ?

Snowone. Can you explain why you don’t think you get paid for your holidays? Is it because of the way your contract is worded? I.e you’re contracted to work 195 days (or whatever it is per year)?

I’m struggling to understand how it is any different to any other job where you receive an annual salary (as teachers do) and get xx number of days holiday. Albeit I appreciate teachers don’t get to choose which days to take their leave on.

Oh and my favourite card this year said :
Miss you are my favourite. I used to hate you but you're alright now.
Boom !

Meh... I retrained to be a teacher a few years ago. I love my job - the kids are never boring and my colleagues are fab. I warn three times my starting salary as an NQT, work 8-5 most days, rarely work in the holidays, evenings or weekends. And the holidays are a massive perk... I am on the first of my two planned trips away this summer (both carefully chosen to avoid large groups of kids on holiday themselves ).
I get fed up with the negative messages I read about teaching on here, from teachers and non teachers alike. It’s a fab profession for the right person, can be well paid, and people who would like 13 weeks off per year are welcome to retrain. Some of the most successful teachers I know retrained after another career.

I am one of those retrainees. I'm a bit tired after a long term and I've a long week as lots of stuff needs doing, so I'm not on holiday just yet. That starts next week for 3 weeks before I'm back for exam results, and the resultant required support. But I have never enjoyed a job more.

Kingkiller - I don't think that teachers are overpaid, I've not said that. Teaching is vital to society and the economy (and is sadly an example of what happens to a profession when it tips from being male to female dominated - salary and respect drops)

The overall compensation package, which obviously depends from school to school and the individual, isn't terrible though, taking into account salary (pro rata-ed up to the full annual salary it's well above the national average); pension (not as good as it was, but still better than most private sector pensions); sick pay; and days-where-the-individual-is-required-to-be-in-the-workplace (a clunky way of distinguishing between "working" and "at work")

I still teach - but I'm now basically a peripatetic MFL teacher (primary, adult and a bit of secondary language assistanting). I get the nice bits with none of the responsibility, no PRP, no report writing, data, staff meetings, exam results etc. I also get low pay and don't get paid in the holidays. I'd HATE to go back to full time secondary teaching. The money would be nice but not enough to compensate for the job.