To think a lot of people are jealous of teachers' holidays but...

[Pengggwn]

...too bitter about it to admit that they wouldn't be teachers themselves?

Just that really.

I have seen so many comments and threads aimed at dissecting teachers' pay and conditions to a forensic level, people complaining that teachers are available over the summer to answer their queries, people arguing that teachers should be working anyway or claim to be working even when they're not (I'm not, at least not for the next month).

And yet, we are in the middle of a teacher recruitment and retention crisis. We can't recruit and keep well-qualified teachers.

Where are all the volunteers??

I quit teaching because it completely took over my life. Six weeks of summer holidays don't make up for pretty much every weekend and evening being impacted for the rest of the year.

You can only be an NQT. You'll increase that by at least 60% in 5 years with TLRs and incremental rises.

Whilst I don't disagree that an NQT's pay will increase quickly (providing they hit all targets etc), from experience, an increasing number of teachers are finding their TLR's being cut.
Lots of professions are expected to go above and beyond. I think a point to note is the ever changing workload demand and pointless paperwork. My school is still asking for "Ofsted ready" lesson plans even though they are not a requirement. Who does this benefit? This is just one example. When there is so much tracking and assessing/planning and case studies to complete, the actual teaching side becomes a lot smaller.
I think a lot of teachers feel the need to defend what they do as we are so highly critiqued all the time.

I love teaching. I went into it knowing the money would be more than I had earned in previous jobs and that the pay would get better with more experience.
I also did it for the holidays. I start at 7 30am- my choice so that I am ready for the day ahead and I leave 10mins after the children. I don't work weekends (unless I have reports or an assembly to prepare for) and I work perhaps 1-2 days in the holidays.
I get all the things I need to get done throughout the school day (working lunch) and I am consistently judged a good/outstanding teacher.
I am only able to achieve this whilst giving my all to the children and the school because I work in a SEN school and have a class of 12.
I love my job and the children I work with.

@crunchymint

28 days is the usual minimum entitlement if you work FT 5 days a week.

https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights

newsofas did not say that. She said that most general office jobs are paid nowhere near £35k.

TBF what is termed as "holiday" for teachers isn't really a holiday, is it? It's time when you're told to bugger off because school's closed and you're not needed - come back in September! oh wait, no come back in late August because your planning needs doing and your room setting up. And no, you won't get paid for doing work stuff in school either.

I couldn't be a teacher; not bright enough, no authority, no soft skills or management technique. The first belligerent parent with a chip on their shoulder about how little Bonnie or Donnie is doing would have me hiding under a desk. (My mum was one of those parents, I cringe to think back to the horrific way she used to speak to my teachers. I believe "I pay your wages you know" was even mentioned )

On the plus side, I have a lot of respect for my dc's teachers and try to be totally professional in all of our interactions.

crunchymint
Newsofas said: Rachel cat whisperer - I understand what you are saying but £35k for an office job is way too high

but I do think that sometimes on Mumsnet, teachers make out that their job is the most highly pressurised, badly paid, horrendous job in the world

I must have missed those posts. I think there are lots of much worse jobs eg police officers who almost only deal with (quoting one) ‘Shit on shit’ or surgeons who must encounter incredible stress.

The teacher holidays are great! I will say, however, that it seems to be that a lot of teachers seem to unwell at the end of each term, which wipes off a portion of the holiday.

I’m an extreme case, been admitted to A&E recently, 2 trips to Minor Injuries, 3 follow up visits to the GP for re-dressing, trip to GP emergency today, due to chronic eczema caused by stress, apparently. Delightful pictures under blisters thread in Sporners’ Corner. Still, this is a weird one off, hopefully and I normally do some, but not much, work over the holidays. I’m on Doctor’s orders to elevate my feet til my feet heal. Suits me!

an increasing number of teachers are finding their TLRs being cut.

True, the job I left 2 years ago carried a TLR of over £9000. It was just filled (3rd person to do it since I left, I managed for 11 years) with a TLR of just over £4000, same role. Also, many older, therefore expensive, teachers, particularly in London, are being pushed out, according to a senior union rep in my area. Most NQTs are very good, but experience is needed to support them and the kids.

Ha ha how to misread Jimmy. Of course I wasn’t saying that. But £35k in my organisation of 500 people office staff are not paid £35k. They are unfortunately paid a lot less. So Maisypops I would never slag off teachers. I just don’t think the average office person is paid £35k. So perhaps read my post properly before you join in the bashing.

Would hate to be a teacher but yes I am totally jealous of their holidays (they get even more here in Ireland than in the UK)

For those saying that teachers might start on less than £25k/year but they get a pay rise every year, not any more they don't! It's performance-related pay now, teachers are set (often ludicrous) targets and only go up the scale if they meet those targets. Schools are skint, so they set impossible targets to save money. Some headteachers tell class teachers to inflate children's assesments too, making it even harder for the next teacher to meet targets.

One more point, new teachers will have student loans of around £50k to pay off. As soon as they pass £25k they'll be paying that out of their salary, as well as a high percentage for their pension and tax. Take home, for all the hard work they do, is less than you would think.

Thank you Crunchmint for reading my post properly unlike JimmyGrimble and Maisypops. Some people are so quick to read and Slag off. Yes I’m not saying £35k is too high I’m saying generally office staff are not paid £35k. We have full time staff paid £17k in the south east of England who have responsible office jobs. AND I’m not saying that is right either but as the average wage in the U.K. inc London is £26k, £35k is high.

Schools are skint, so they set impossible targets to save money.
Fun fact, one year I had some horrendous targets which I actually met with some fantastic results (alongside all the other requirements to go up the pay scale.)
When I enquired about a pay rise I was laughed out of the room with SLT saying, "Don't be silly, we don't have room in the budget to give you a payrise!"
It's things like that that make the job disheartening.

Probably said before and likely ignored. But. They are not holidays. Teachers are not paid for this time off. They have an annual wage based on the hours they work during term time (tho the over time they do is not paid). The pay is spread out over the year.

teachers make out that their job is the most highly pressurised, badly paid, horrendous job in the world

Nope, teachers respond to the Bullshit posted on a thread about them/us and this is the trope that is returned by other posters.

I'd absolutely hate to be a teacher and I think they deserve those holidays.

I have friends in jobs that require skills and a degree, who manage staff and work for an international company who earn £30k. I think most better off people have no idea how much most people are paid for highly skilled and responsible jobs.

I am not at all jealous of school teachers' holidays but... I am secretly a little bitter that the (non-teaching) head of DC's school signs off completely during the school holidays. I somehow feel that someone in a senior management role on a good salary should not get a normal school teacher's holidays.

tryagainsardines I'm not surprised. Did you contact your union over that?

My daughter has been teaching for four years, she is on M3 at the moment and was set a target to get more children to greater depth. She works in a school which has high numbers of fsm, LAC and EAL pupils, the levels she was told when she started were too high, so it's unlikely she'll move to M4 in spite of the hard work she did, even though her head teacher agreed that some children simply aren't capable of greater depth.

As a teacher I love my job. I would not however touch teaching in England (I'm Irish) as the entire system seems full of nonsense that isn't beneficial.

The issue with teaching imo is that far too many people outside the profession think they know how it should be done and try to stick their oar in. Either because they have kids themselves, for political point scoring or because they went through school.

Either because they have kids themselves, for political point scoring or because they went through school.

Why do you think it's like this in England? I mean people on other countries also went to school, have kids etc.

so it's unlikely she'll move to M4 in spite of the hard work she did, even though her head teacher agreed that some children simply aren't capable of greater depth.
It's such a shame and one of the problems with a "one size fits all" method (thanks Gov!)

Sirrah I have been in touch with the union and it's ongoing. One of the issues is that I'm quite on my own in standing up for myself and saying when enough is enough. A lot of the staff agree there are numerous issues going on in my current school but I'm the only one doing anything about it. I'm pretty sure I've a black mark against my name and the only reason I'm still here is because I consistently get good results and the children (and parents) like/respect me.

Any volunteers?

Yep. I'm desperately trying to get back IN to teaching after having a break to have my kids at home for the early years. No fucker wants you once you hit 40, have racked up a bit of experience and therefore expense and even supply agencies are incredibly awkward to get back on the books of when you can't easily reference the last 2 years as Mr Tumble and the rest of the Cbeebies crew won't do them.

No issues at all with the holidays or anything - I'm about as supportive of my kids' school teachers as you can get. Fucking horrified at some of the shit being pulled by schools though (ours is one of the few non academies around locally).

There are no minimum or maximum number of hours set for you to carry out these duties There are limits! 1265 hours, is the 195 days to be pro rated for PT workers.

^The STPCD states that a full-time teacher “must be available
to perform such duties at such times and such places as may
be specified by the head teacher…for 1265 hours in any
school year, those hours to be allocated reasonably throughout
those days in the school year on which the teacher is required
to be available for work”. It is important to remember that the
1265 hours is an absolute maximum and that teachers do not
have to be directed to work right up to that limit.^

But we may be talking at cross purposes, given your other statements about directed / undirected time. No, teachers cannot be directed to do more work, but no teacher I know keeps tabs. So it becomes a moot point. You just keep on going until all the class work is done and then until all the Ofsted prep is done and all the other, often repetitive 'done for the sake of it' work is done. Professional judgement doesn't really come into it n many schools and colleges, you just keep going until it is done. Though I know many school teachers who manage not to get involved in any of the 'other work' due to how their departments are run.

And we know full well about the pay including holiday pay... not being stupid (but thanks for the insinuation). All salaried workers have that included.

Maisy I had read some of those too, have decided they look daft enough to be obvious stirrers, so am ingoring them

I think it’s the fact that teachers seem to act as though they’re the only ones with stressful jobs. A lot of them are paid about £35,000 (once they’ve put in a few years). And there are opportunities for progression and higher pay after that. Most jobs of that salary band involve targets and stress and don’t have the career progression opportunities. And I would guess that more people would try their hand at teaching but the government makes it so expensive and time consuming to retrain. Not everyone can quit their job and take a gamble at retraining. I imagine that if night school was an option for teacher training then the teacher shortage would be solved.