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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why aren't farmers seen as scroungers?

237 replies

Cismyass · 22/07/2018 10:42

If someone is in receipt of benefits they are seen as a scrounger and if their business doesn't make them minimum wage it is seen as unviable. When some farmers receive huge EU subsidies and make very little money themselves through actual farming why are they seen as any different?

OP posts:
TheNavigator · 22/07/2018 13:31

The Duke of Westminster is lovely. The previous DoW was too. Pretty easy to be 'lovely' when you are fortunate enough to have been born into a privileged life.

The OP raises an important point. Many people do hard, necessary work - carers for example - but don't get the sort of public adoration many posters here have show towards farmers. Many carers have to claim benefits and are considered 'scroungers' while farmers somehow deserve their subsidies. That is the cognitive dissonance the OP was highlighting, a point lost under a barrage of biscuits and outrage.

Some professions are considered so wonderful that even to question them is deserving of online abuse, while not others. We all need clean environments to live in, but I don't see cleaners getting the same respect or reward.

Mumofazoo · 22/07/2018 13:36

I’m sorry to hear you haven’t had good experiences with farmers, but myself and the neighbouring farmers I know don’t drive fancy cars, I myself drive a clapped out Land Rover. I have never been abroad and the last holiday I had was when I was 9 years old. We certainly try not to do as much on Christmas Day but we still work and New Year’s Day is just another work day for us. Our labourers are all paid on time even if we have to do without and I would never dream of treating someone unkindly.

Maidsrus · 22/07/2018 13:39

As with any subsidy or grant you get people taking the piss. I know an owner of many businesses including a B and B and stables who bought a few goats in order to be able to claim a grant meant for farmers

longwayoff · 22/07/2018 13:42

Grin tanith. Look forward to the day he's got to dig for his own turnips

Crinkle77 · 22/07/2018 13:52

user My dad was a small tenant farmer. We did not have fancy cars. We had old bangers and my dad had an old battered transit van. He was an arable farmer and yes he did have a couple of days off at Christmas. This was well deserved as he worked his butt off to ensure that there c was enough sprouts for people's Xmas dinner. During the 90's things were so bad he was earning the same amount off money as he had been 20 years earlier. My dad had trying to get money out of produce merchants who actually owed him money. A supposed friend of his continued to take stuff off him despite his business being up shit creek then went bankrupt and my dad never saw a penny.. My dad was a lovely man who was kind to everyone he met and sadly died before he could enjoy his well deserved retirement. Sorry that your experience of farmers had been bad but don't label them all the same.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 22/07/2018 14:11

Many people do hard, necessary work - carers for example - but don't get the sort of public adoration many posters here have show towards farmers Again, supporting one cohort of people does not equal denigrating another.

Many of the people 'adoring' farmers on this thread will be equally 'adoring' of carers and nurses on other threads, hell, they may even be cares and nurses themselves!

(Oh, I am NOT, nor have I ever been, a farmer, married to a farmer or even just a little bit in love with one)

user1471450935 · 22/07/2018 14:15

curious
Was that aimed at me.
Because I have milked cows in Paull, Burstwick, Stapleford Abbotts, Ashbourne and Spital and Stenstall and Wawne. All between 65 and 230 head of British Friesan and Holstein Friesan cows. I have a NDA from Bishop Burton CA and dairy herd management from Reaseheath.
I have sat in the rain at 0200 in the middle of nowhere jacking out a backwards calf, to save the mum as vet was 2 hours away. Had to push breach calves back in and turn them to get legs to put ropes on to get calving jack onto it to assist the birth. Pulled cows out of lakes, swimming pools and slurry pits. I have AI certifictes for cattle, so saving on paying the Genus man to do it.

Sadly many farmers voted to kill the Milk Marketing Board, so the likes of Tesco and Muller etc could pay them 5p a litre more. For 3 years. Funnily enough they did. Just long enough to kill of the farmers co op that replaced the milk marketing board. I watch an ex girlfriend's parent lose everything and then her dad killed himself, when Arla cut his contract price.

My Bil and I worked 10 hour shifts in non farmering jobs, before doing another 5 to 7 hours of work to keep MIL arable farm going. She was an council tenant. She retired 5 years ago. Theŕe was no money in it then. Her husband died aged 56, through ill health. No way would any of us go back. But farming needs to decide free market or subsidies. It did with the Milk Marketing Board. Sadly everything my boss's grandfather warned about happening to dairy farmers in the 1930's which lead to the MMB, has evolved to be correct.

Finally every arable farmer I have every met, 100's has had Christmas day and new year day off. Livestock farmers no. But as we used to say cows don't know it Christmas. But we started at 4 o'clock to finish early. One got Christmas afternoon off, one got Boxing Day afternoon off and the third New Years Day afternoon. Thats on a small 75 head family farm. You.had a whale of a time. Miss that, still start at 0500 in new job. And finish after midnight. Just not all in same day.

Farming isn't a romantic thing. It is a business or it should be. We used to cull out 25% of our first calf heifers after a year because they didn't produce enough milk to be profitable. Same with inlaws pigs. They made enough in the good years to pay for the shit years.

Sorry but 95% don't know shit about farming. Ps I have been to Germany , Italy, Usa and Canada to get best practice. Had to turn down jobs in NZ, 650 cows Jerseys and Saudia Arabia, 10000 head of Holsteins.

Many farmers would and did break rules to make money. Health and Safety of it staff is shit. Top 3 killer in uk. Don't believe the bloody archers or Yorkshire Vet. Most of the dairy farms I work on would have put the cows down before paying for 2 vets to operate on a cow. Unpedigree herds, cows worth £175 to £300/head.
Farming is a business and not a bloody tv/radio show. Most of our farming friends laugh at what goes on in the Yorkshire vet. But we would never have gone on tv, because we don't do what farming like the public to think it does.

Most small tenant/family farms are nothing like whats on tv. Most don't want the public anywhere near them. Because we do things which would horrify the general public. Because cows, pigs and sheep aren't pets, they are an asset and yes we treated them well, but no way did we pay for vets. I had to learn how to inject medicine into a vein, so to save my boss paying for the vet to do it. Or cow would have been sent to knackers yard. Vet bill and antibiotics for a week was more than cow was worth. Sad but true

MikeUniformMike · 22/07/2018 14:19

I agree that farming is nothing like The Archers.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 22/07/2018 14:26

Yes, user, it was. Your first post was a stupid, vitriolic waste of time.

Your second is no surprise, I too know farmers who acted like that. But that doesn't mean that most farmers don't work hard and wish the system was different. You say as much yourself.

As for the 'archers' comments, well, colour me stupid but I have never listend to a single moment of it. But I have lived most of my life in a farming community, with farming friends and colleagues. I have even been known to step in and help during times of illness and injury. So I am not an unknowing idiot, I am well aware of the things that happen on farms, I just don't attribute them to the evil of farmers, more to the desperate lack of choice, wherewithal to do different.

What exactly do you want to achieve with your posts?

user1471450935 · 22/07/2018 15:19

curious
Honestly I read the first 3 pages of this thread, saw so many biscuits from people who clearly think it ok for food prices to rise so obviously well off and who either know nothing about farming or are the farmers who probably still treat honest workers like me as shit on their feet. That I saw red. So I posted the truth. Not opinion the truth; you know the stuff that noone reports now. My life in farming.

Sorry if it hurts. But 2 farmers, plus MIL are/where great 7 shit. So now people can see the two sides.
I could list numerous warm stories and even more horror stories upto you.

Think the UK population should know that countryfile farmers are not the majority.
Hope thats ok.

Mumofazoo · 22/07/2018 15:24

Well now I know what people truly think of us. I’ve only ever tried my best to meet growing demands and to do my best by my family.

Skarossinkplungerridesagain · 22/07/2018 15:30

Tosser

derxa · 22/07/2018 15:33

I had to learn how to inject medicine into a vein, so to save my boss paying for the vet to do it. And?

Thehop · 22/07/2018 15:35

Evasive they work their arses off providing an essential service

CuriousaboutSamphire · 22/07/2018 15:35

Don't apologise... if that's waht you want to say then say it... but your first post didn't.

I don't disagree with you about farming practices in SOME areas, but I don't know any farmers like the ones you describe - I used to but no longer. I get it that you have had the misfortune to know shit employers, they exist everywhere. But I wouldn't tar all employers with the same brush.

And I didn't see the biscuits as you did, I saw them as berating the OP for a sweeping statement and, likethem, I disagreed wth the term scroungers, just as I have done when that has been aimed at single mums, middle class families, normal every day people who claim benefits they are entitled to.

I am happy to rail agains the system, not the individuals who must live within it!

eightfacesofthemoon · 22/07/2018 15:42

What we do know, however, is that the aristocracy and the Royal Family still play an important role in the ownership of our country. More than a third of land is still in the hands of aristocrats and traditional landed gentry. Indeed, the 36,000 members of the CLA own about 50% of the rural land in England and Wales

So 50% of the landed gentry get government subsidy. I’m sure there are lots of hard working farmers out there. But this isn’t really about them.

I think the OP has a fair point.

What happens after brexit? Will they still receive subsidies? Because all farmers are painted as hard working men and women with flat caps and their job in their bones???? Whereas scum benefits people are considered, well as scum?

Corporations and the landed gentry, that’s who owns our farming land.

Are farmers on this thread really going to say, they didn’t really know that half if not more of the landowners in this country receive huge subsidies but are corporations or the gentry???

TerfsUp · 22/07/2018 15:43
Biscuit
Lizzie48 · 22/07/2018 15:47

I saw the biscuits as a response to a goady thread title, and unkind, as there will be hardworking farmers among the posters on here. It's a very interesting subject and it's a pity the OP was worded the way it was.

I don't do biscuits, as I think that if you feel strongly about something you should use words.

LighthouseSouth · 22/07/2018 15:48

@user1471450935

bosses all treat their workers like shit. It's bloody awful and I am constantly amazed there's not revolution etc.

no idea what the connection is with subsidies though.

no OP?

nocoolnamesleft · 22/07/2018 15:49

Let's see:

Because they work fucking hard
Because they're fucking tough (standing joke at work - if a farmer books into A&E, pre-alert intensive care!)
Because we need to eat
Because without those "benefits" we'd all be paying a metric fuckton more for food
Because it helps encourage good environmental practices
Because starving is bad

Because most of us are actually bright enough to realise the above.

I cannot imagine anyone I would be less likely to consider scroungers than our farming families. Bloody hard workers.

Stirner · 22/07/2018 15:55

@CuriousaboutSamphire - why are you so determined to police what @user1471450935 posts?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 22/07/2018 15:57

I suspect that every tenant farmer is only too aware of who it is that gets the quotas, licenses and many of the subsidies, they aren't stupid!

Again, blame the system, not the people who have to work within it!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 22/07/2018 16:00

Stirer I am not sure I get how disagreeing is policing... but User chose to rant... their first post seemed out of place in the thread and I wondered why? If that is policing, meh

Are you trying to tell me I shouldn't have asked? Are you trying to control how I post? Police me, police you, could ramble on a while... Smile

Matilda1981 · 22/07/2018 16:00

In addition to everyone’s comments about needing food and the fact that farmers work bloody hard they do also have to work hard for their ‘benefits’; money isn’t just given out, they have to provide detailed information on crop nutrient plans (for environmental reasons) as well as land management plans (for environmental reasons) etc