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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why aren't farmers seen as scroungers?

237 replies

Cismyass · 22/07/2018 10:42

If someone is in receipt of benefits they are seen as a scrounger and if their business doesn't make them minimum wage it is seen as unviable. When some farmers receive huge EU subsidies and make very little money themselves through actual farming why are they seen as any different?

OP posts:
Ivymaud · 22/07/2018 12:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DoryNow · 22/07/2018 12:21

As usual, OP drops an inflammatory ill-informed AIBU & is too cowardly to come back & explain their reasoning.

Still.....lots of biscuits !

YouSeeMyDearIHaveHadEnough · 22/07/2018 12:22

so afraid of anyone with an original thought that goes against the grain. Some bigots and bullies even report those like the OP. Ridiculous. Stop trying to stifle free speech.

Wtaf are you on about? An original thought? The op is hardly some unrecognised genius in a sea of step ford wives. The op wasn’t just offensive it was boring and completely stupid. Benefits scrounges? Rightio. So original. But go ahead and convince yourself that she’s the next novel prize winner if you like.

Xenia · 22/07/2018 12:23

Isn't the average farmer's net income something ridiculous like £10k though?

hibeat · 22/07/2018 12:24

What is appalling is to put one group against another, when one - the farmers - in the first place does not get that much, and the second -people in need - well it's the system in place. Can anybody just get off and have benefits ? I think not. All of this post is utter nonsense.

YouSeeMyDearIHaveHadEnough · 22/07/2018 12:24

Scroungers*
Nobel*

Scrowy · 22/07/2018 12:29

Sounds about right Xenia.

Just below the tax threshold Wink

This will blow your mind OP, some farmers are so poor even with farm subsidies that they are also eligible for state benefits. Not many claim them though.

Firesuit · 22/07/2018 12:30

I'm not sure that would work. Mainly as farmers do much more than produce food. In order to continue land management there would need to be some 'benefit' specifically for farmers, to enable them to continue to manage the countryside.

I've no problem with money being given to farmers to manage the countryside, as far as I know, which isn't very far, this the sort of thing existing subsidies do.

My problem is with posters who seem to be stuck in some sort of 1970's time-warp, who think it's a good idea to give farmers money in order to make shop food prices lower.

If a farmer spends x tens of thousands of subsidy money to maintain a pretty stone wall, to make up an example, that is fine. What the taxpayer is buying is a pretty stone wall. That is not a food price subsidy.

If a farmer is give x pence per litre to produce milk, which I hope doesn't happen, that is the kind of subsidy which would be better redirected at benefits recipients.

Velvete · 22/07/2018 12:33

OP you are using "subsidies" and "benefits" as interchangeable, that's why what you have said is complete nonsense.

(Disclaimer- I don't think those in receipt of benefits are "scroungers" but I do know people who play the system giving many a bad name unfortunately.)

"Scrounger" is a term generally used for those who want to receive something for nothing whilst giving nothing in return and doing nothing of value to "earn" the money. That's why some people refer to "benefits scroungers" etc.

Subsidies are received as part of a contractual agreement. In the case of farmers they will provide a service or product in return for the subsidy. This is why calling farmers who receive subsidies "scroungers" makes no sense at all.

There is of course all the political stuff that goes with why this has to happen which many have explained to you further upthread.

Generally no one would use the term "scrounger" to apply to someone who works seven days a week and provides an invaluable service. It's an unpleasant term used to refer to people who want something for nothing.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 22/07/2018 12:40

Oh! I don't hink you understand how subsidies are paid, Firesuit - hardly surprising as they are convoluted Smile

CAP is the only subsidy aimed at food prices, the rest are rural management. It's one of those hideous EU things that was supposed to help set a minimum wage for farmers but got wildly out of hand and ended up building food mountains/lakes. I remember reading this and being horrified at the reamifications of CAP. But,a s you can see, it is now modified and has gome back to direct payments, to being income support

www.economicshelp.org/blog/21641/agriculture/farming-subsidies-in-the-uk/

raindropsandsunshine · 22/07/2018 12:40
Shock

Farmers are essential to our countryside and our economy. Are you actually serious?

Velvete · 22/07/2018 12:42

Exactly @raindropsandsunshine

That's why it's ludicrous to compare farmers to those in receipt of state benefits.

MilkybarGrownup · 22/07/2018 12:44

Because farmers work their arses off 365 days a year for a pittance of an income in order to provide the general public with affordable food?
Completely different to someone who doesn't work.

AbsentmindedWoman · 22/07/2018 12:54

I have a lot of respect for farmers and the job they do. I also have a lot of respect for people in poverty, who simply cannot make ends meet especially now in the shit show of universal credit. Labelling anyone as a 'scrounger' is just an excellent way to dehumanise somebody, to make them less than, to make them other.

Plenty of people who now have to apply for universal credit to make up for housing benefit which doesn't exist anymore, are working full time in low paid jobs.

A shocking amount of disabled people have had their disability benefits stripped away. PIP is supposed to be a benefit you can claim if you are working or not, in recognition of the extra cost attached to being disabled - what a joke, they have manipulated it so that basically if you are working you won't get it.

So if you can work, but need to take taxis on some days when your mobility is bad and that's what you spent a portion of your PIP on - forget it. Possibly resulting in people having to stop working, if they can no longer afford the workarounds that made it doable and sustainable. What employer wants to hear you can't get to work on random days because your pain is too bad?

Farmers ARE NOT scroungers, but neither are so many people in a billion other situations but they are painted as such.

There's a really dangerous set of beliefs floating at the moment that many disabled people can simply stop being so fucking disabled, if only they'd just try hard enough. It's the same belief system which tells us that poor people in general are only poor because they're not trying, they are just a little too lazy or unmotivated.

The stereotypes have now broken away from the image of 'lazy scrounger' as somebody on the dole, spending their payment on booze and fags. Now plenty of those being criticised are low paid workers like carers or retail staff, because the criticism levelled at them is that they need to get a better job. Because we live in a world where working full time at fucking minimum wage doesn't give you enough money to cover basic living expenses like rent and yes, the food that is artificially affordable, because it's propped up with subsidies.

Not everyone can just get a better job. Disabled people cannot just stop being disabled.

I will be mocked for saying this, but even if we look at the traditional 'scrounger' stereotype as mentioned above, I bet mental health issues are a massive culprit here. And mental health services are frankly not fit for purpose across much of the UK.

No small kid, when you ask them what they want to be when they grow up, says they want to just sit around and do fuck all everyday. The first you see of that attitude is pre teen at the earliest, when they want to emulate family or friends they admire - but it could not take root without a poverty of aspiration which is the real problem in deprived areas. Low self esteem and low self confidence (frequently expertly masked by bravado and banter) and a poverty of aspiration.

derxa · 22/07/2018 12:57

OP tell us what you do for society.

HighNoon · 22/07/2018 12:59

Where can you find a good explanation of how UK farming works? I've often wondered the same as the OP, as a townie with little idea of what farming really is about. I take it not all farmers own the farm, so are they employees or how do they pay the landowner? Are farms quaint places with chickens and ducks or giant factories, or something in-between? What is the average income for a farmer?

This all may be entirely obvious to those who farm, but most of us don't. The countryside is somewhere we amble about in! If anyone can give me a UK farming 101 I'd be very interested.

FairfaxAikman · 22/07/2018 13:02

Consider it payment for doing things they don't have to do - like clearing the road of snow in the winter.

This last year my entire village would have been cut off for weeks if the farmer hadn't got the only access road open and kept it open and he did it all while calving etc as well.

milpo · 22/07/2018 13:08

Op....not coming back to defend your opinion?

categed · 22/07/2018 13:13

Scrounger
a person who borrows from or lives off others

By it's very definition working farmers are not scroungers. They work long, hard days. They produce a 'need' for society not a want or something frivilous. Food should be, as much as is possible, locally grown. Imported food isn't as fresh, sustainable, or good for the environment. Farmers also manage the countryside so that those of us who do not own land can also enjoy access to it.

For people who think farmers in the uk should sink or swim are they forgetting that in other threads, Brexit, that people are panicking about not having enough food or that the price of food will be unachievable for many because as a country we don't produce enough food to feed ourselves? For tge sake of our environment and the world we need food to travel less before it is eaten.

There are some people who are scroungers but they are not that common. Why would we want to label anyone as a scrounger i don't know and how we can perceive that people who do the most they can or who work or who work far more than the average can be percieved as scroungers is beyond me.

Lizzie48 · 22/07/2018 13:16

The OP has posted only once, in order to light the touch paper. She's probably laughing at us all for getting sucked in.

Tanith · 22/07/2018 13:17

One of the biggest scroungers I know is currently squatting in his tied cottage, having chucked his job in before they sacked him.

metro.co.uk/2018/07/21/boris-johnson-still-living-20million-foreign-office-mansion-despite-resignation-7742834/amp/

user1471450935 · 22/07/2018 13:17

Sorry there loads of bollocks spoken on here about farming. I am married to an farmers daughter and milked cows from 13 to I was 31. Left for a better job 17 years ago. Most arable farmers have Christmas off. Many New Year too. Crops dont grow much on winter. Apart from Dairy people most lovestock farmers aren't up at 5 o'clock. Many farmers we know drive Audi, Bmw and Mercedes.

The reason why milk is so bloody cheap is Dairy farmers own bloody fault. MMB guarenteed prices, but was to communist for free market farmers. I went to at least 20 meetings where old farmers begged to keep the MMB. But no we voted for free market prices. Shit happens. Same for beef, feed companies took out an expensive treatment on Bone meal we got BSE, madcow disease. I watch 100 of cows die in an awful way. Shit happens and we now have loads of rightful regs.

Finally I can say many farmers are awful people. I have been hit and kicked by one of my old bosses for refusing to break milk regs. Regularly not paid on time, my wife had to beg a farmer to pay us after we hadn't had my wages for 4 weeks. He though had a fortnight in Florida and a new Range Rover.

Sorry many farmers are prize tw*ts. We buy milk cheaply, because thats what 68% of dairy farmers voted for. I only feel sorry for the 6 I know who voted against free market and now have lost everything. The others you sadly sow what you reap

Finally New Zealand and America don't subside heavily. Farms are big concerns which make money. Sadly that is what farming is like. If you want small family farms, many of the poorest people in the UK will starve. Why should someone using foodbanks subsidy the f*cking Duke of Westminister and many multi millionaire Tory voting farmers

GeorgeIII · 22/07/2018 13:18

Hmm farmers do help when it snows but the modern tractors/machines do alot more to damage road, verges and drystane dykes, here where I live, than help.
Anyway Brexit is going to completely, over time, change the payments that farmers get so we will see what happens.

MikeUniformMike · 22/07/2018 13:19

The Duke of Westminster is lovely. The previous DoW was too.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 22/07/2018 13:19

Yay... that was convincing!!