Why aren't farmers seen as scroungers?

[Cismyass]

If someone is in receipt of benefits they are seen as a scrounger and if their business doesn't make them minimum wage it is seen as unviable. When some farmers receive huge EU subsidies and make very little money themselves through actual farming why are they seen as any different?

For the record, I don't mind paying more for food etc. I appreciate that prices are low and it costs far more to produce what we eat than what we pay. Again, I don't think the OP is suggesting farmers shouldn't be subsidised. Just that other people are demonised for receiving far less than farmers do.

I hear you OP.

Sigh, should I or shouldn't I wade into this? I just had a big argument with a friend one week ago about this same thing, except I'm in Australia.

OP, I will go against the tide here and say I agree with you. And I do see where you're coming from.

I really don't understand the deification of farmers. They CHOOSE the job knowing it is tough. They CHOOSE it. The ones in Australia always seem to have their hand out for benefits or subsidies. No other industry does. There will always be a farmer or a person who can grow veges/fruit in their backyard. We won't starve. I think ambulance, nurses and teachers have it FAR WORSE. It should be like any other industry. Market decides who survives. If a farmer cannot survive without subsidies, then either they are too much in debt with the bank or they are farming the wrong product. Or, in the wrong area for that product. Why are farmers deified so much? Why do people act like they are doing us a favour? It is a job that they chose. There should be no subsidies. Where I am, rich graziers get subsidised fuel, newspapers, even subsidised private school and boarding school, they can claim things the ordinary taxpayer can't, and their benefits are higher than ordinary workers who are not in the farming sector.

The chose the job. If they cannot succeed in the industry without govt bailing them out, then they have no business being there. I will save my deification for people who truly have thankless jobs and don't get any extra subsidies for their trouble.

Now, give me my biscuit (what the hell does that even mean, anyway? Are you saying I am hungry, or something?). No, a chocolate bar instead would be more appreciated.

@CuriousaboutSamphire the OP isn't attacking farmers. I'm just curious if all those who are suggesting they are heros and work harder than anybody else in the country, care about others too. Because I'm pretty sure that is the OPs point.

Because it's not the fault of farmers that, due to a combination of government regulations and cabals of giant supermarkets, farming doesn't pay enough - just like it's not the fault of those who receive benefits as a top up to their wages that we live in a low wage society where living costs routinely exceed average earnings.

I expect you're trying to draw this parallel in order to point out that judging those on benefits is a bad thing to do, but why be so deliberately goady?

How much do you pay for a pint of milk OP?

Where do you buy your milk?

If you are buying your milk from a supermarket then you are of course aware that supermarkets have beaten down the price farmers receive for their milk to the extent that farmers are practically selling it at below cost price.

Do you, and me, and the rest of us really want to pay a fair price for farm products, reflecting the cost of production and distribution? Unfortunately the answer is no, we don't.

Interesting that the OP has disappeared

Milk was one of the first thing that was subsidised in the EU

food is a basic necessity. As a country we need to be as self sufficient as possible. I don't want to have to rely on imports to feed the country. That's a scary thought. Hardly good for the environment either. As a farmer in the 90's my dad got subsidies for the land that he was told by Europe that he had to set aside. He did not have any choice and the subsidy was compensation for that.

For gods sake!

If OP is not trying to be goady and may have posted in an inarticulate manner, they can come back and say so.

But it seems to be the SOP here, nobody can acknowledge that a cohort of people may be having a hard time, experiencing unique difficulties becasue, well, whataboutery occurs!

kirin I'll ask again, where have I, or anyone else, said that we don't care about others who may also be having a hard time? You are making assumptions, casting aspersions... seems a bit odd!

Sorry, that posted early!

Seems a bit odd. Almost as though you are dismissing the real and negative experiences of farmers!

No I'm not casting aspersions. Just laughing that you're all too busy being offended because you've totally missed the point of the original post.

Thank you @Serin

To whoever it was saying farmers need to calm down fuck off I think you're pulling your own incorrect conclusions from our posts, certainly from mine anyway, which is just what you're berating us for. I absolutely would stand up for anyone who needs benefits to survive. The system is fucked and people are struggling. Yes, as farmers, we struggle, but so do those who do not work due to physical disability, or mental health problems, or even down to lack of education, whatever the reason, and I feel for them too. I wouldn't call any of them scroungers, but that doesn't mean I'll be less passionate about defending what we do and who we are.

OK. I can nly be happy that I have lightened your Sunday!

(An answer to my question would have been nice though)

well just be prepared to actually pay the full cost of food then, increased taxes to pay for benefits.

But hey farmers should not be subsedased we just need to pay more taxes so we can give poor people more money to buy the basics...

It's not necessarily a question of more taxes, it's just a question of whether is would make more economic sense to subsidise production by farmers or the incomes of benefits recipients. (It would in fact be much, much cheaper to get a given amount of help to poor UK residents via the benefits system than via indirect subsidies to food prices.)

OP, do you eat? You know, food?
Meat or plants, if you eat, be bloody grateful for farmers, they work harder than you’ll ever realise. And they get idiots like you saying things like this.

Wow!! Just wow!!

Also! I appreciate that the OP may well have been making the point that one person receiving payments from the government due to need and circumstance is not necessarily any more a scrounger than another.. but I think it's rather telling that they appear to have vanished.

@Vicky1990 Emergency service personnel such as paramedics have an extremely high suicide rate. And they actually do something to help save lives. Lets quadruple their salary and give them subsidies then....

Yeah, I thought not.

Because scroungers are people who want to be given money as they see it as their right without having to earn it.

Farmers are given a range of benefits to help with their business which provide us with meat, vegetables, fruit, milk and many more products we need to survive.

It would in fact be much, much cheaper to get a given amount of help to poor UK residents via the benefits system than via indirect subsidies to food prices.

I'm not sure that would work. Mainly as farmers do much more than produce food. In order to continue land management there would need to be some 'benefit' specifically for farmers, to enable them to continue to manage the countryside. Think abouot all the reasosn set aside and the other schemes were put in place by the EU. Farmers were forced to accept those subsidies and mamage their land in ways that made it possible to earn a sustainable living. The UK government has said it won't change the subsidies, but hopefully it will enter into more discussion with the various farming communities to better support them in managing their countryside best - like allowing moorland farmers to strip burn again, maybe.

I was only joking about selling the land BTW. I have heard people say that 'instead of getting subsidies farmers should sell the land for housing'.
There are parts of this country that are deprived or have few employment opportunities and not many would want to live in. The land might not be suitable for development.
Without farming the beautiful British countryside would be an overgrown wilderness.

Is everyone who has an 'unpopular' opinion all of a sudden 'goady'? Where did that come from? So in order to not be seen as 'goady' we all have to agree and never start discussion on important issues like this? Lets all have the same opinion. Lets never stimulate thought, ideas, discussion. It's like the Stepford wives on here sometimes, the way people are so afraid of anyone with an original thought that goes against the grain. Some bigots and bullies even report those like the OP. Ridiculous. Stop trying to stifle free speech. As long as it isn't breaking TOS or making defamatory statements about someone, or illegal, then just scroll on.

Wow I’m a farmer and I didn’t realise that I’m a scrounger, I work 365 days a year from 4:30 in the morning till god knows what time at night, so does my husband and my children. You want to try working in ALL weathers just to keep everything going.

Is everyone who has an 'unpopular' opinion all of a sudden 'goady'? No! Just the ones who make belligerent first posts and then bugger off

We don't pay enough for our food. In 1957 33% of a household's income went towards food, today it is 11%.
A couple of weeks ago everyone was proud to be English, because it was 'Coming Home'. Isn't it a shame that the same pride doesn't carry over into the weekly shop.