To dread this holiday to Italy with a friend

[needtimealone]

So my friend invited myself and ds to Italy with her and her twin boys. She has a house out there and is going to stay there.

I'm nervous generally anyway but I've come to absolutely dread it.

I'm naturally a tom boy, hair pulled back and a little make up, I actually think I look OK.

When I went round my friends house on Monday she spent the time telling me that I have to go shopping to go to Italy because the people there will be looking at me and judging me, that even people she hasn't spoken to in years will talk to her just to see who I am and they will pass judgement on what I wear. (she is Italian if it makes any difference).

She's told me that while I'm there I can't pull my hair back as "were on holiday after all".

I'm not one for doing all my hair and make up and wearing very girly clothes. I'm dreading going now and just feel like what's the point. Ds and I are very adventurous and I'm an introvert, I don't even know how I'm going to get some time alone. I already feel stressed. It's ds (6) first time abroad and at first I was excited...

To give your friend the benefit of the doubt, it could be that she is just trying to prepare you for local norms where she lives so you don't feel too out of place when you get there. Imagine if you had a very glamorous Italian friend and were from a rural village in e.g. Scotland and you wanted to let them know that it's not the norm to wear heels and full make-up to go down to the village shop to buy a pint of milk. That would be a helpful thing to let them know before they got there.

However, it sounds like she is a pushy person who won't take no for an answer and that is a whole other problem. Do you get along generally? Going on holidays together with kids is a big decision unless you have a lot in common and your kids get along well. It could be a nightmare holiday - or if you communicate and are upfront with each other ahead of time, it could work out OK. You should tell her how you feel now to avoid upset later.

Holidays are hard enough with anyone whether that is boy friend, or family member
Someone that is a bit horrid would be a no go. Get good insurance and then come down with something to get your money back

I think you shouldn't go, your expectations and hers (mostly hers) and what you each want to get out of a holiday are too far apart. She is obviously very conscious of appearances and what others may think/say; I can understand that to an extent, it happens in some small, rural communities where everyone knows everyone else and their business. Part of it might spring from concern, in a backhanded kind of way, for you i.e. she doesn't want you to get hurt if anyone says something or even just looks you up and down in a snotty way, I dunno though I get the feeling she's probably concerned you might show her up. Nope. Don't go.

I’ve had this from Italians! Well similar. Yes it’s a very looksist society and very dressy. Not a lot of individualism, it’s a designer uniform type of culture.

Yes they will judge. But let them.
It’s none of their business how you choose to present yourself.

Does your friend even know you? How bizarre she is expecting you to change yourself to holiday with her

Venice is fab, you could wander for ages, maybe go but tell her in advance that you want to do day trips. Don’t allow her to dictate how you dress/behave and make it clear before you go that you won’t be conforming to her batshit ideas.

I don't think this is going to end well. She's going too take offence but you need to set the boundaries before you go.

If you already getting nightmares, I wouldn't go.
It's meant to be holidays and relaxing time for you, not a stress. You will come home more tired and exhausted then even before.
She sounds pretty shallow and egocentric to me, to be honest.:/

OP, I live in FVG which fits the bill of being “quite rural and about an hour from Venice” and quite frankly your so-called friend is talking nonsense.
During the day in Summer shorts and a top with Birkenstock or flip flops are the norm. A loose sundress and sandals for more feminine types. Sundress over your costume if you go to the beach.

If you go out for dinner or sightseeing, just scrub up a bit, put on some sunglasses and make sure your legs and arms are covered if you go into a church.

By the way, the Summer Sales have started in Italy with 50/70% off so tell her you can go shopping once you arrive. The stuff will be more appropriate and much cheaper. Or you could just put off the shopping trip altogether...

I've only been to Italy on holiday, several times, just come back, it was very hot and we were too busy trying to move in the heat, let alone tart ourselves up.
Never once have I felt judged, because I'm on bloody holiday.
Yes, I've seen some scruffy Italians and other nationalities, and have seen immaculately dressed dignitaries attending concerts and opera.
Just like anywhere else there are people from all walks of life.
My friend is Italian and has the most youthful looks it's unbelievable, I don't half envy her.

Please don't tar them all with the same brush, they are so lovely and I admire the family support network that exists in many families from what I see.

I forgot to say..... real tourist here witnessed a man propose to his gf on Juliets Balcony last week.
He put the ring on the wrong hand

Thank you all. I really want to be able to take ds out but feel like I'm more going as an accessory, that I won't have the free time I crave. Urgh I'm going to have to bring this up, the email is a very good idea, but I may send that through text as that's how we communicate. The fact I'm dreading it doesn't bode well for me, holidays are supposed to be fun

If you aren't good enough friends to tell her not go touch your hair, I'm not sure why you're going on holiday with her. You need to be firm. Do you like doing the same things? Will it be fun otherwise?

I think an 'accessory' is quite a good way of describing how she sees you, a sort of cross between a live-sized Barbie doll and a nanny. She gets to style you until she gets bored and then you look after all the kids while she does something more interesting.

Need I meant by translates horribly in our culture, as in British culture. It's come across like she wasn't being a good friend or that Italians are judgemental. But I do see what she was saying bearing in mind she spends a lot of time over there. Look at Justine Lecompte's YouTube video on Italian style and perceptions if you have time.
I wouldn't take the remarks personally . It will be a lovely holiday.

Oh OP, you think curling your hair without your consent is bad! My friend (equally obsessed with looks) physically manhandled my boobs into a frilly pink bikini because she thought I needed to be “sexeee”.

She saw me as a project, forcing me into dresses and taking me for a makeover and couldn’t believe it when I didn’t admit to feeling more of a “woman” afterwards.

She too told me that she was doing it because people would laugh at me. It really hurt and ruined my holiday.

I don’t wish I hadn’t gone though, because it was a beautiful place, but I wish I’d checked into an AirBNB or something and escaped her.

You are who you are. You’re not a frilly person. End of. Be proud of yourself because it’s better to be you than to be concerned about what others think.

On a more practical note, will you have WiFi / data where you’re going?

Because you can book some places on booking.com which allow free cancellation until the day before. You could have one ready as a back up in case she becomes unbearable.

I’ve got Italian relatives and one of them has a huge designer wardrobe stuffed with Prada , Dolce e Gabbana etc, all with shoes, bags to match. She thinks nothing of wearing head to toe Balenciaga to go to the local pizzeria. Yet her daughter wears Doc Martens and a denim jacket everywhere , couldn’t be more of a contrast( she does raid her mum,s wardrobe if she’s going anywhere special). When I go I just wear my usual jeans etc - guess what- no one minds. I’m sure no one will bat an eyelid at whatever you wear or what your hair’s like. You’re going on holiday not going to work or a wedding. I’d go and enjoy the food, wine and the lovely countryside and medieval towns. Tell your friend you’d love to go, but won’t be dressing any differently thank you.

If you're going ahead with the trip, I'd advise you compromise to some extent and dress in a way that doesn't make you stand out. Could it be she doesn't want you to stand out as a tourist? Or that dressing scruffily is frowned upon in her community?

I don't think it's a bad thing to conform to social norms a bit when you stay with a friend in their home, in a different culture. I've worn salwaar kameeze in India, let friends dress me up to the 9s and do heavy make up for (women only) parties; turning up in jeans and a tee would be an insult to the host. It's out of my comfort zone but it's only for a holiday.

In your shoes I'd set some boundaries eg no heels/revealing tops/short skirts then ask friend to help me choose some outfits and teach me some hairstyles. Wearing nice trousers or pretty dresses over Capri pants with comfortable (but stylish) sandals surely isn't a huge hardship for a week or two?
There must be ways you can put your hair up that don't involve curling or scraping it back. I'd ask her to help you out rather than stress over it.

I just wouldnt go with her, I think she will be worse once you get there. I'd just say now that you have thought about it and you have changed your mind. If you dont want to say that then just say you cant afford it because you have had an unexpected large bill etc.
Go To Glenmore Lodge or Plas y Brenin here with your son on a mountain biking holiday. That sounds more up your street, do whats best for you and your child.

I would send her the text and she what she says.
When we were in Italy I wanted to wear loose summer dresses to keep cool I'm not girly at all usually wear walking shorts and a vest top but found it too warm.
Nobody stared at me for having tied back hair, no makeup and flip flops on!

See I don't mind wearing a knee length dress and sandals, but I do not want to have to spend ages on my hair and then keeping it styled throughout the hot day! I just want to relax

I just got back from 2.5 weeks in Italy with my sister. We travelled all over from Milan to Rome. My sister and I don't wear make-up and my hair is always scruffy. My sister has no hair and sometimes wears a wig or if its hot or rainy a skull cap and noone made us feel uncomfortable. Everyone in Italy - all over the country - was so nice. I would definitely go back. I've travelled all over the world and I think Italy is now up there with my opinion on how nice Italians are. But if the friend you are staying with is making you feel uncomfortable - she's not much of a friend I am sorry so I would not stay with her.

"If you're going ahead with the trip, I'd advise you compromise to some extent and dress in a way that doesn't make you stand out"

I have hoidayed in several parts of Italy and have never been able to distinguish locals from holiday makers. I think the OP just needs to wear what she feels comfortable in. It isn't as if it is a culturally sensitive situation.

I doubt the locals will care and if they did it wouldn't matter. But if you think that your friend will be a pain in the proverbial AND you aren't confident of putting your foot down and stopping her, then cancel now. It's not much point having a holiday if you're going to be left needing another holiday to get over this one.