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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think men ignore pregnant women as a backlash

98 replies

Pratchet · 19/07/2018 02:07

Against women's rights? I just read this www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5968747/Why-men-stopped-offering-pregnant-women-seat.html in the Daily Mail and I was thinking, how much you have to hate women to refuse to give a seat to someone eight months pregnant?
Men seem to have had an incredibly childish reaction to being obliged to treat us equally - which culminates in 'ner if you want equal rights I'm keeping my seat'. They seem to think they're some kind of victim, and making pregnant women stand up is their revenge.

OP posts:
Slapbetcommissioner · 19/07/2018 02:14

Yanbu. Like when you discuss feminism and (some) men say thighs like oh well if women want to be treated equally I can hit them now then?...like your first thought when women want to be treated equally is that now you can hit them..... They never say oh women want to be treated equally let's pay them more/stop them being murdered/something positive its always women want to be treated equally let's hit them/make them stand up/take their kids away and only let them see them every other weekend/other ridiculous negative bullshit.

Original poster
Pratchet · 19/07/2018 02:18

Like they are so privileged their actual reaction to having a tiny bit of superiority challenged is to get their revenge on vulnerable people. Pathetic.

OP posts:
CannuckTheCrow7 · 19/07/2018 02:25

To be honest it’s hard to draw many conclusions without more data.

Unless I’ve missed something, both studies surveyed commuters, not just men.

Also, without older studies, we don’t know if men (or women) used to be more inclined to give up their seats and whether there has actually been a change in attitudes.

CocoDeMoll · 19/07/2018 02:26

Yep, pathetic.

They can’t wait for a legit reason to treat us badly. ‘Well you asked for it with all the feminism shite...’.

AngelsOnHigh · 19/07/2018 03:48

Was discussing this very thing with a friend. She was telling me her DN is 7 months pregnant, works in the city and has to stand up most of the time. No one (man or woman) offers her a seat.

We were travelling on the train to meet another friend for lunch. We are well dressed "ladies of a certain age".

Two young lovely well dressed young men immediately got up and offered us their seats. We accepted because it would have been mean spirited not to.

We didn't want to take their seats because we were on a day off work going to a leisurely lunch while they were on their way to a long day at work.

I never expect anyone to stand for me on trains. Luckily I have a 10 minute drive to work most of the time.

Most of the men and women racing to trains in the morning have already done a few hours hard work already. Getting DC ready for day care, school etc. Should one really be expected to stand up for the other?

Yes, we all teach our DC to have manners and stand for the weak, sick, frail and elderly. Unfortunately, pregnancy isn't any of these.

I would always stand for a pregnant woman but I understand if someone else doesn't.

Polomintini · 19/07/2018 03:57

If we really want equality then we have to see it as the job of both men and women to give up their seat for pregnant women and others of either gender who are less able to stand. Articles like this are not helpful. I travel on the tube in rush hour and frequently see people giving up their seats for others, but I also see people engrossed in their phones and sitting in the priority seats and not paying attention. If you are in a priority seat you should look up at each stop and check. If you need a seat, you should ask politely for one...people are not mind readers and not everyone is visibly identifiable as pregnant. In my experience if a seat comes free then men invariably cede to women to sit when we have no more right or reason to need it than they do.

gunnyBear · 19/07/2018 04:00

The data seems lacking.

However, I'd guess that as men are called misogynists for patronising women or any other perceived slight, they may as well sit down and be comfortable and achieve the same outcome.

Also, with #loveyourbody it's more often than not a fattie, not a pregnant person you'd be offending.

NuttyNutty · 19/07/2018 04:14

I'm not sure if we are talking the same London Tube but I am pregnant now and someone offers me a seat almost every time I use it. I don't even need it that much because my trips are quite short.

I do not see this as an equality issue. If anything it's a health condition and anyone, man or woman, should offer a seat. I had been offered one by both genders.
Why does this have to be about men only? Aren't woman supposed to be kind and decent as well?

MsFrizzle · 19/07/2018 04:16

I don't usually stand for pregnant people because I have an invisible disability, but if I'm having a good day and somebody looks like they're having a bad day, I'm more likely to give them my seat than not.

Hence why I think this:

Only four in ten passengers offered without being asked, while another study of 2,000 commuters revealed just six in ten were prepared to give up their seats, full stop.

is unfair. So many people are unable to stand because of invisible illnesses now. Six in ten is quite a high number.

Clairetree1 · 19/07/2018 04:19

I have never found it difficult to get a seat on the tube, I just ask. I never even have to explain why. I frequently ask on behalf of pregnant women too, who seem to prefer to stand rather than ask for themselves. I don't understand this really. I don't think I have ever in my life NOT got a seat, even if occasionally the first person I ask says sorry, no, I need this seat. Inevitably someone else will stand up.

Bumpitybumper · 19/07/2018 04:52

@AngelsOnHigh
Yes, we all teach our DC to have manners and stand for the weak, sick, frail and elderly. Unfortunately, pregnancy isn't any of these.
I would always stand for a pregnant woman but I understand if someone else doesn't

I will be teaching my DC to offer their seat to anybody that could reasonably benefit from having a seat more than them. This may include young children who are unstable on public transport, pregnant women and just anyone that looks like they are struggling standing. To be honest if you're a fit, healthy person having a seat is great and all but it isn't a necessity, whereas for some people for lots of different reasons a seat could make a massive difference to their journey. Isn't it just the kind thing to do to offer your seat to someone who may need it more? If they don't need it they can always decline.

In regards to your wider point OP, I think you may be right that in the minority of cases some men are keen for even pregnant women to have no advantages over men as they view it as the price of equality. Most of the time though I would imagine commuters either haven't noticed that there is a pregnant woman potentially in need of a seat as they are distracted by their phones etc or they're simply to selfish to stand for anyone and would act similarly towards a disabled or elderly person.

user1471426142 · 19/07/2018 05:58

I have generally been lucky when pregnant. Yesterday at Waterloo though it was hideous. Major disruption seems to turn people into animals. I was barged and knocked despite having a very visible bump. I ended up shouting at one man because he nearly knocked me over because he barged past with such force. I saw old and disabled people struggling and being pushed. I saw people looking desperate at platforms knowing they weren’t going to get on trains let alone get a seat. It is times like this when operators should have a responsibility to do some crowd control and protect more vulnerable people whoever they are.

timeisnotaline · 19/07/2018 06:07

I work in the city and have found people mostly jump to give me a seat. Sometimes I have to ask but that’s because we are all morning zombies plus are on phones in the tube commute not because they don’t want to, I’ve done the blank morning stare enough myself that i wouldn’t take it personally.
Interestingly i went to a women in finance session my office held and we were standing in discussing groups which re formed several times and of mostly young women. I was heavily pregnant and found the evening exhausting because it really didn’t occur to any of them that I could really do with a seat and I didn’t feel like moving the whole group over to a seat . With groups of men (I work with mainly men) in similar instances several of them would have jumped to work out a chair option for me.

sar302 · 19/07/2018 06:37

I commuted within London throughout my pregnancy. My experience was that women or young men (teens/20s/30s) would often leap up. I was not once in my pregnancy offered a seat by a middle age man.

It seems that young men take the idea of women's equality for what it is. Whereas many older men are very bitter about it. As to why that is, it's too early in the morning for me to ponder.

Original poster
Pratchet · 19/07/2018 06:38

Why are people saying it's about 'offence'? It's because pregnant wonen may need to sit because they are pregnant.

OP posts:
Original poster
Pratchet · 19/07/2018 06:42

if we really want equality then we have to see it as the job of both men and women to give up their seat for pregnant women and others of either gender sex who are less able to stand

Good point, absolutely agree.
#sexnotgender but I completely agree everyone should stand up for pregnant women including kids who are pretty much old enough

OP posts:
Original poster
Pratchet · 19/07/2018 06:43

they're simply to selfish to stand for anyone and would act similarly towards a disabled or elderly person

Beyond depressing

OP posts:
Oysterbabe · 19/07/2018 06:44

Whenever I got a busy bus in my last pregnancy it was always, always young women who offered me a seat. I don't remember a man offering one once. I don't think men are more obliged than women to offer a seat but I'd have expected it to be about 50/50.

PrincessPear · 19/07/2018 06:45

I agree. I just ask them to move. I don’t care if I sound rude or obnoxious, I feel tired and sick and if they don’t want me to throw up on them they can give me a seat.

Itoldyouiwasgeeky · 19/07/2018 06:47

I dunno my grandma had to stand up on 2 buses when she was in labour with my auntie and this was in the 1940s.

Original poster
Pratchet · 19/07/2018 06:47

good show

OP posts:
ClaryFray · 19/07/2018 06:48

I just think it's poor manners. Men and women refuse to stand for elderly, what's the reason there? I think it's a big leap from I'm not standing up to being against womens rights

Original poster
Pratchet · 19/07/2018 06:49

That was for Princess not your Gran! Your poor gran tho

I think a man not standing up for a visibly pregnant woman is a pretty strong example of major resentment against women.

OP posts:
Notabadger · 19/07/2018 06:50

I commuted when pregnant and never had to stand but perhaps that's because I said ' please can I sit down'. Zero problems.

PrincessPear · 19/07/2018 06:50

Its definitely selfishness but I have heard some people say “she chose to get pregnant and not have a car so why should I have to move?” when talking about this. Which really bugs me, because that’s just being an asshole.