To think men ignore pregnant women as a backlash

[Pratchet]

Against women's rights? I just read this www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5968747/Why-men-stopped-offering-pregnant-women-seat.html in the Daily Mail and I was thinking, how much you have to hate women to refuse to give a seat to someone eight months pregnant?
Men seem to have had an incredibly childish reaction to being obliged to treat us equally - which culminates in 'ner if you want equal rights I'm keeping my seat'. They seem to think they're some kind of victim, and making pregnant women stand up is their revenge.

I know Pratchet but why she didn’t ask someone to move is beyond me. The urge not to be awkward/rude is strong.

Princess that is massive assholery.

I give my seat up to women carrying small ones and looking fucking knackered

And to old people looking knackered

And anyone that looks grey and ill

Sometimes pregnant women - don’t always notice them if I’m honest

Oh maybe exaggeration but I'm my view, not standing up for a pregnant woman is the same as showing extreme contempt for your own mother.

In my view not I'm my view

When I commuted pregnant it was always a man that gave me a seat or offered assistance

I found that I was pretty much always offered a seat on the train and tube in late pregnancy (and I gave birth a week ago, so this is recent!) and the couple of times I wasn't and asked multiple people jumped up. I do think that people who have either been pregnant or had partners who were (a lot of men who gave me seats commented that they remembered how hard it had been for their wives/girlfriends) are a bit more thoughtful and attuned to it, for obvious reasons. I work in a university and the (generally lovely and polite) students weren't great about giving me space, not getting impatient with me on the stairs, etc. - not because they're rude, but because when they see a pregnant woman they're not really aware that she might have some physical limitations. I do wonder whether this accounts for why people have such varying experiences on the tube - if you travel from somewhere very 'young' like Dalston I can see that there would be fewer people who would notice and help you than from, say, Wimbledon.

The one other thing I'd say is that pregnant women often think their bump is more immediately obvious than it is, because it's so obvious to them. I think I thought I had a 'bump' at 16 weeks, but it was at least 25 before anyone else would have felt safe assuming I was pregnant not a bit tubby! And I had a conversation at work at 8 months pregnant with a man who right at the end looked down and said 'oh my god, you're really pregnant!' but had somehow managed to just not look at my stomach before that. I think when you're pregnant it feels like you have a flashing light over your head to you and then people feel like they're being deliberately ignored, but actually people often just aren't that observant.

And for a man specifically

I never had to stand on the train but bus drivers were WANKERS. I had to get a train and two buses from work for my anti-natal appointments and buses would clearly see me massively pregnant (I was like a brick shithouse) putting my hand out IN THE RAIN and smirk as they drove past.

We used to have mainly standing meetings at work (in a hospital). About 5 chairs between 25 people. I'm ashamed to say that it was female colleagues, who knew me, wouldn't offer their seats! They actually made the men look courteous.

It really bothers me Pratchet, and without getting too off topic and political, I think it’s a symptom of a selfish consumerist society instead of a family and people first one.

I got weird looks for asking for a seat the other day. Despite me being able to tell I’m pregnant, I don’t look much different (I’m naturally skinny so anyone who knows me can tell but otherwise I just look medium build) and the train was crowded. I didn’t care and still asked, because there was no way at 15 weeks with twins and severe HG I was going to stand. People can deal with it if it annoys them having to give their seat.

I'm heavily pregnant and usually people leap up to offer but if not then I do ask because I physically cannot stand up on a moving tube for 30 minutes and especially not in this heat. I don't understand why women are reluctant to ask. Yes it's slightly embarrassing to speak to strangers on the otherwise silent tube but often people are just looking down.

Agree that young men up to 30/40 will offer as do young women but middle aged people rarely. I have had 40/50 something men and women look at my bump and look away deliberately.

And to the PP who said "pregnancy is none of these: the weak, sick, frail and elderly. "
I am definitely physically weak and I was fine until the 3rd trimester but now bump is very heavy and hips are very painful. Most women struggle at this point. It isn't equality it's about helping a vulnerable person. If I fell over it would be very serious even if I managed to land on my hands and knees.

One thing that I did notice and surprise me is waiting for my pregnancy yoga class to begin, there were about six chairs in the waiting bit for about 15 women - and most of the women in the second trimester didn't offer them to the women near the end. I always offered mine to more pregnant women if I got there first, but at 39 weeks I found myself standing while women who then in our 'go round and say how you're feeling' bit described themselves as '18 weeks and feeling great!' sat. I was really surprised that there wasn't a bit more of a code of honour among pregnant women themselves!

Great points Lisa I think all those circumstances could apply. I still think that there are definitely men who think 'I'll show YOU equality* because of a residual resentment at legislation to protect us.

But yes I think some men are afraid to offend in case women are not pregnant but just heavy, also maybe they don't want to get snapped at -'I'm pregnant not ill' etc.

If a pregnant woman actually asks for a seat it's just sadistic not to give it up.

@LisaSimpsonsbff I bet they are all first timers! Having done the 3rd trimester at least once before I think next time they would offer!

The baby on board badges are great because sometimes you most need a seat in the first trimester and don't look pregnant.

My DF offered his seat to a pregnant lady and she told him off because he was being "fucking patronising". He stopped offering since then. I wonder what sort of experience some of the men have had.

I was only once offered a seat on the tube when I was pregnant, by a teenage boy, maybe 14/15 years old.

I was talking to a (childless) friend about it a few years later, and she said she'd never offer her seat to a pregnant woman because it's their choice to be pregnant and on the tube and so they don't get priority over others.

I don't think it's just men, I think it's selfishness and a general lack of understanding of how it feels to be 8 months pregnant. Luckily I had low risk pregnancies and was physically OK, but even so hugely uncomfortable.

fucking patronising what a stupid thing to say and how rude. Some people think they're so cool.

Funky I think selfishness is often at the heart of it

I was talking to a (childless) friend about it a few years later, and she said she'd never offer her seat to a pregnant woman because it's their choice to be pregnant and on the tube and so they don't get priority over others.

I hope when she’s elderly, she gets no care then because it was her choice to not have kids and to not contribute to a society where everyone helps each other regardless.

There are definitely some men who will be actively resentful and not offer their seat. I'd say the vast majority of fit and able people who don't offer seats are probably just selfish though.
When I was commuting heavily pregnant, I did have to stand sometimes. I found the most helpful people to be middle aged women and the least helpful both young men and women. Middle aged men did offer sometimes but I had one older women carrying my shopping bags for me over the station bridge.

I've been offered a seat every time I've been on the tube (around 3 times a week)

I definitely think this is true of some men op. It’s a petulant “you asked for it” attitude. And plenty of women will back them up. The “I hate feminism even though I’m a woman” crew.

That said, I travelled in London a fair bit with both my pregnancies and not once did I have to stand. I was always offered a seat. More often by women though tbh.

My disabled friend otoh, frequently got harassed for sitting a lot of the time as her disability is invisible. There was a hideous incident on bbc news recently where a disabled stand up comic was bullied and humiliated by a train guard for refusing to move from the wheelchair space to accommodate a mum and pushchair. It isn’t just men. Women and mothers can be utter asshats too.

There was quite a push, when securing maternity rights for women at work, to keep pointing out that pregnancy is not an illness and that women shouid not be treated differently because of it.

Of course that's an oversimplification of the real message, that women shouid not be disadvantaged, but the oversimplified version is the one which stuck and which had the unintended but enduring consequence of reducing the likelihood of being offered a seat.

And of course they may also be thinking that even a heavily pregnant woman may be better able to stand than some people with less visible impairments to ability to stand, plus that it is high risk to assume that a woman is pregnant (not just fat), plus that it might be the early days of pregnancy when you feel more vomitously awful and need a seat more than at any other point. And so decide their personal policy is only to cede their seat of someone asks.

@sar302 I started noticing the same thing a few weeks ago. Even worse the middle aged men would be sitting in the priority seats including those that are obviously workman. I know some middle age men have disabilities but I know from working and travelling with them they are the type to refuse to sit in the priority seats.

Oh and another thing I hate is children who can sit on an adult's lap being given their own seat on a crowded train/tube. The accompanying adult in the majority of cases has a small bag with them.