Bloody loud kids in the communal pool all day, everyday.

[DavidBowiesNumber1]

We've recently moved into a new house on a small development - 20 houses, at present only 10 sold, of those 10 only 5 of us are permanent residents.
Not in the UK.
Up until about 3 weeks ago everything was peaceful, harmonious, pretty idyllic. Then the "holiday homers" arrived.
Now, out of the 5 nonresident households, 3 have lots of children ranging in ages of about 1 to 13 years old. Approx' 9 children between them but every day there are friends arriving to spend the day (and sometime night) at the pool.
Now I'm all for kids enjoying themselves and its lovely to see them doing something other than sitting indoors in front of a tv/tablet/phone/games console but AIBU in thinking that the parents (who are rarely at the pool) should A) be keeping an eye on them and B) be telling them to hush down a bit?
All we can hear from morning 'til night (up to 12.15am this morning) is the children shouting, screaming, jumping in the pool etc.
It's incredibly hot here (40c+ in the day, never dips below 32c at night) so all doors and windows are open therefore the noise carries everywhere.
If we want to use the pool we have to dodge bombing children/passing li-los/random balls and floats along with said 'DC'.
We would just like to enjoy our downtime and relax. Is that too much to ask?

As I said, by your argument adults or children shouldn't get in the pool to play ball games if there are others swimming in there, after all they will probably need over 70% of the space for their ball games and they shouldn't create hazardous conditions in a space that others are already utilizing. So essentially in your world its first come first served and whichever group happens to be in the water first gets to use it for that purpose for as long as they like, and they should never compromise or share even though it's a communal space. Nice world glad mine isn't like that.

And are elderly people on holiday expected to just get smacked in the face with a ball, or leapt on by kids, if they dare to venture into the pool past 6am? I'm sure you can see that what you're saying makes no sense. Everyone who has paid to go on holiday should be able to share the facilities in a way that least interferes with other enjoyment. The kids in our family are great kids, they can spend hours in the pool, doing handstands, diving between each other's legs, chatting, having breath holiday competitions etc. but they have such good manners and have been brought up to be considerate of others, so they're aware that others are using the pool too and don't take over the whole thing. They're lovely. Not like the ones you describe who are being brought up not to give a fuck about anyone else as long as I'm alright Jack.

No, if it's not a designated lap swimming time then all pool uses are equal, and safety concerns must come first. Lap swimming is a danger when others are in the water for recreational use.

Safety has to come first.

It's not first come first served. The activity that is dangerous has to stop when others arrive who could suffer from a collision or from being submerged, kicked, walloped.

Additionally, adults should be mindful of the safety of children and should model consideration.

Math, YABVVVU.

If you genuinely believe that adults should not be able to use a swimming pool (that they have paid for) for the purposes of swimming (whether laps or just to relax) when children are in the pool, the logical conclusion is that there should be designated times when children and families are allowed to use the pool and swimmers are not, and there should also be times when swimmers are allowed to use the pool and children and families are not.

Of course, such rules would be entirely unnecessary if everyone respected everyone else’s right to enjoy the pool.

You do know that generally villas, hotels etc don't have designated lap times? That's not a thing. It's not like going to a leisure centre. But glad we agree that dangerous activity has to stop when others are there. That means no balls games or leaping in, as only an idiot would fail to realise that's dangerous to swimmers. As I say, I'm lucky I guess the kids I know are brought up in a way that makes them a pleasure to be around on holidays. You often see them in the pool with people of all ages, including our 80 year old grandad when he fancies a swim, and there are never any probs. Some kids just know how to behave around others I guess. I'm glad we agree on modeling consideration though, that's what I've been arguing all along.

...are elderly people on holiday expected to just get smacked in the face with a ball, or leapt on by kids, if they dare to venture into the pool past 6am

Weirdly, elderly people and 'boisterous' children co-exist happily in my local pool during public and family swim times. This is because they are all recreational users of the pool and it is easier to steer clear of a family playing ball or kids doing cannonballs than it is to keep on looking behind you to see if there is a swimmer plying a straight line from one end to the other.

In my local pool, in the main pool, there is even a chair lift device for people who are normally wheelchair users, who can thus use the pool during all opening hours. They are assisted out of their wheelchairs and into the chair lift device, then lowered into the water. When they want to get out they return to the chair lift and whistle up a lifeguard.

There are also several pool wheelchairs that can be wheeled into the thigh depth area and locked in place so that people in them can spend some enjoyable time in the water while children run all around and the fountains play. (They are chairs designed for pool use, not dry land chairs.)

Children jumping in tend not to leap straight onto others. Even if their parents have not warned them not to do this, they themselves will learn the hard way that this hurts. By the same token, elderly people can also usually see well enough to keep clear of children who are jumping in. Maybe they avoid a certain spot where children are gathered to jump in and climb out repeatedly, or maybe they stay a little out in the water in case of random jumpers. Lap swimmers otoh, depending on the stroke, might have a hard time seeing what or who is in front of them, and in the case of the backstroke and crawl (depending on your form) you can forget about seeing others altogether.

I shudder to think what might happen if some dick decided to do lap swims while someone not enjoying full mobility was floating on their back, playing ball with grandchildren, or catching small children jumping in.

Do you swim much? Your objections to common sense observations seem to indicate that you are not altogether familiar with how pools work, or safety concerns.

I think that’s what’s called a “straw man argument”, Math.

Do you go on holiday much? I think we are talking at cross purposes. I never go to the leisure centre type pools (too many kids, obviously 😀) but I spend a reasonable amount of time at outside pools at hotels, villas etc which is what I'm talking about and more akin to the type of pool the op describes. There is a vast difference in expectation/management between a public community pool and a private outdoor pool in a hotel or villa complex which is only for residents and not open to the public. Hence lap swimming times are not a thing.

Of course, such rules would be entirely unnecessary if everyone respected everyone else’s right to enjoy the pool.

Respecting everyone else's right to enjoy the pool involves first and foremost, refraining from doing the thing that is more likely to put others in danger, LoveinTokyo.

If your intended use of the pool is to swim from one end to the other with limited vision of other users then you are not a safe user of a facility that is designed for many people to use all at the same time, doing a great many different things. You shouldn't try it.

Similarly, if your intended use of the pool is to put on a blindfold and take a running jump into the water regardless of who is there already and you expect other people to move their children somewhere else, you are an unsafe user of the pool.

Same with traffic. You don't have the right to do the speed limit if there is congestion or if weather conditions or visibility are poor. You may well want to. Doing the speed limit may well be legal. There may well be a pressing reason for you to try to do 70 in stop and go traffic, but doing so would be dangerous.

..........
I am saying adults should model consideration and be mindful of safety, Harridan. Not that children should move to make way for lap swimmers. All uses of the pool are equal unless otherwise stated and if there is lap swimming explicitly allowed there is usually some demarcation. The reason for this is that lap swimming and recreational use in the same space are not compatible due to the danger involved when lap swimmers plough into people. We are not in agreement.

Eg I'm assuming the pool you are using is not effectively in someone's garden and is fully closed at certain hours. The op is describing a pool which is just outside of people bedrooms/living areas and is not locked up. You can't compare the two. Of course if I went to a public fun pool type arrangement I would expect screaming kids behaving like monkeys, but in a residential complex which is shared with people of all ages (and to clarify, does not have set times for lane swimming) it is a different matter. But as I say I'm lucky that the kids I know are aware of the difference and adjust their behaviour accordingly, so it's never been a problem for me.

I wouldn't worry about the noise during the day, but I think it's ok to expect them to be quite from 9pm. Perhaps talk to them and ask (nicely) that could they please be quiet from 9. If they don't then I think you should get up early mow the lawn, use the pool be very loud from 5am. They won't have much fun with tired kids, hopefully they get the hint.

There is no demarcation in the type of pool the op describes, you do need to understand that because it's a really key part where your argument falls down. Everyone has to share the space, and everyone has to accommodate each other. So it's wrong for any one group to take it over and dominate it.

What is the straw man argument, LoveinTokyo?
The fact that I have observed people with limited mobility enjoying themselves in a pool heaving with children shrieking, throwing balls, using floatation toys, etc?
The fact that lap swimmers can't always see well while swimming?
The idea that safety trumps all other interests when it comes to pool use so maybe lap swimming among other swimmers when no lanes have been marked off is not a terrific idea?

I have been to a good few hotel/resort pools, Harridan. I have never once encountered anyone being such a dick as to try to lap swim when there are children around. Many are kidney shaped or otherwise unsuitable for 'lengths' or laps. They have had features like steps for lounging on half submerged, islands, etc.

The places I have been to have all been child friendly. I have nothing against children and am often dismayed at the attitudes towards them here on MN.

The OP's residential complex is not restricted to adults and neither is the pool. She rather obtusely decided to live in a place where children live and where children holiday, and where there is a feature that is incredibly attractive to children and then complains about children using it in a way that is not British, in a place that is not Britain.

Wow, so you actually do believe the nonsense you're spouting? I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you were talking about something else. If you have genuinely never seen anyone (and I will say again I'm talking about young people as well as adults even though it seems to blow your mind that some children enjoy actual swimming) swim laps when there are children in the vicinity on any holiday that you've ever been on, then I repeat my earlier comment, I'm glad you and I don't holiday together! Because where I go the children aren't so poorly parented and lacking in awareness of others that they prevent other children, and adults, from having a swim! Anyway I'm done with this circular conversation. Night.

Everyone has to share the space, and everyone has to accommodate each other. So it's wrong for any one group to take it over and dominate it.

You are saying that swimming in a straight line when you probably can't see if someone is in front of you is not dangerous.

As someone who swims, I am here to tell you that this is complete nonsense.

Where I swim at 6am, lap swimming is so regulated, for safety reasons, that there are even lanes for people doing different speeds. People going too slowly in the fast lane will be whistled by the lifeguard and ordered into an appropriate speed lane. People going too fast in the slower lanes likewise. This is so that nobody gets kicked in the face or hit with an arm.

How could anyone get kicked in the face, you ask. All they are doing is lap swimming, and they have the right to swim.
By swimming up too close to a swimmer in front because you can't see them, is how.
How could someone be hit by an arm?
Answer - by swimming up too close to the swimmer in front, because you can't see them.

Take your swimmers with limited vision and let them loose in a pool where others are enjoying the water and see how many children and elderly people and others you can whack with feet or arms. See how many lap swimmers collide with each other. It's the opposite of safe fun.

Safety comes first, not the rights and wrongs of some group dominating the pool.

The OP’s pool is probably not even open at 6am if it is chlorinated overnight. “As someone who swims”, you ought to know that.

If it’s really impossible for children and adults to coexist peacefully in a shared space then there should be times which are reserved for each group.

The OP was complaining about people’s children raising merry hell at all hours of the day and night, their parents not supervising them and people not respecting the rules of the communal pool.

And several posters, including you, were discussing with me the fact that lap swimmers plying a straight line in a crowded pool, could cause injury, submersion and fright to other pool users.

The OP was complaining in a very obtuse way about how people from other countries supervise their children, while living in another country, and expecting them to observe British sensibilities wrt noise at night and appropriate bedtimes even though they are clearly nowhere near Britain and the other people in question are not British.

Her decision to buy her property was informed by some very British assumptions about the professional classes.

She needs to accept that other people are not British.

She was also complaining that some of her neighbours had installed AC in defiance of the complex rules while she was melting in the heat. Clearly nobody gives a hoot about the rules, so she needs to install the AC, close her windows, pay the electricity bill, and chill. Maybe she could put in solar panels to offset the cost. It sounds as if she lives somewhere sunny.

I’m also not sure why you think people can’t see where they’re going when they’re swimming. Can’t say I’ve ever had that problem.

You’re really coming out with some absolute shit now. I don’t know where the OP is but nothing she has described would be unusual behaviour for British parents and their badly behaved children.

The OP’s pool is probably not even open at 6am if it is chlorinated overnight. “As someone who swims”, you ought to know that

After chlorination you usually wait a full cycle of filtration. This depends on the length of the filter cycle.

I know this because some of my older DCs (who are not at all vile btw but upstanding, considerate, responsible adults and one teen at this point) were lifeguards in their teens. Most swimmers are not that familiar with filtration cycles, chlorination, etc unless they own their own pools. Why would you assume they would be?

Most lap swimmers are familiar with how hard it is to see in front of you while swimming, otoh.

The OP actually could probably take a dip at 6 but she should ask the pool guy. If the children/teens are suffering no ill effects from returning to the pool after the pool chlorination has been done then it's probably fine for the OP to enjoy the pool bright and early.

*Maybe ease off with the name calling? You don't know my children. Thx.

She said she didn't know the local language but what she shouted at the children seemed to do the trick. Therefore I assumed the children she objected to did not speak English.
there's a language barrier that I need to overcome and not just resort to a loud "Shut Up, FFS" like last night. It worked then though

Sometimes people from a different culture/country observe different customs about nocturnal activities, including pool use.

It is apparently hard for the OP to wrap her mind around this, and hard for her to see others breaking rules even if the rules are not sensible. This is a funny old mindset.

As I said, and as I illustrated with reference to lanes for swimmers doing different speeds at my local pool, difficulty seeing what is ahead is a problem, depending on the stroke.

I am not sure why you can't understand how someone might not see in front of themselves while doing lengths/laps. Bobbing along with the breaststroke, your view of what is ahead is probably not restricted, but the backstroke or crawl - do you have eyes on the top or back of your head?

You couldn't be more wrong, I assure you.