To feel sickened that this man is being referred to in this way (WARNING UPSETTING CONTENT)

[bigoldscaredycat]

This man raped a three month old baby boy to the point where the baby needed corrective surgery.

He is now in a women’s prison in Canada where he has beaten up a female inmate.

THIS is where self ID leads. Men like this being incarcerated with women and their crimes being counted as female.

torontosun.com/news/national/feds-deny-paying-for-convicted-pedophiles-implants

www.newwestrecord.ca/dangerous-offender-in-b-c-loses-appeal-for-day-or-full-parole-1.23279132

Go on, Mumsnet, delete me for deliberately misgendering a male baby rapist.

THIS.IS.A.MAN.

Perhaps this story will illustrate why feminists are so up in arms about self ID.

I would love to see even the staunchest anti-women transactivist tell me that this person is a woman and that they belong in a women’s prison.

Isn't that on both sides of the argument?

No. It isn't.

Good lord. So they way one person acts is representative of an entire gender/race/religion/social group? k.

'I wish I could fly, high up in the sky, but I can't'
you can
'I can't'

Who knew Orville would be the voice of reason one day? I blame Keith Harris for putting odd thoughts into kids' heads.

Best post of the thread. Be more Orville!

The number of FTMs with a "penis" is vanishingly small, and I doubt they are hugely represented in the prison population.

Didn’t the recent FOI request from the MOJ confirm there weren’t any transmen in the system at the moment? I seem to remember that...

As for the turn this thread has taken... well, shit, where to start? First, we have to legislate for NOW, not for some hypothetical science fiction future. My guess is the world will get taken over by tripods before we ever have a successful head transplant. But setting that aside, assuming it is possible, the necessary supply of suitable bodies will be limited. Why the assumption that those bodies will of course go to transidentified people and not, say, oh, I don’t know... those with physical disabilities? Unless you’re also assuming we’ll also be growing bodies in tanks by then and so will have a limited supply?

Good lord. So they way one person acts is representative of an entire gender/race/religion/social group?

Careful not to set your straw man alight now.

If by 'social group' you mean 'convicted sex offenders who say they are women' then this was predictable.

Needastealthname ; The trans community is being exploited and used as a scapegoat.

Yes, it is. By 'trans rights activists', not gender critical feminists.

Didn’t the recent FOI request from the MOJ confirm there weren’t any transmen in the system at the moment? I seem to remember that...

I think so but TRAs dispute it.

Careful not to set your straw man alight now.

Ah, come on now, how else are you going to get a witch to burn?

If by 'social group' you mean 'convicted sex offenders who say they are women' then this was predictable.

Especially as sex offenders tend to be the most difficult offenders of all to reform...

The idea of transplanting a head onto a female body is fairly outré and grotesque.

However, I’ll just remind everyone of the few threads we’ve had recently about transplanting wombs into men - and the absolute certainty those posters had that it would happen and it SHOULD happen. So female bodies seem to be ripe for the plunder don’t they? Talk about the ultimate boundary violation; I’ll take your words, then your ability to say no, then your boundaries, then your spaces, and actually that’s not enough... your womb now... no actually your entire body. See! Now I’m a woman!

It’s like some hideous dystopian sci fi.

A couple of people asked about the biological women in male prisons in England and Wales thing:

FOI Request

From the Ministry of Justice "Regarding request number 1, 3 and 4, currently there are no prisoners who were assigned female at birth, held in male prisons". That was of May 2018.

However, I’ll just remind everyone of the few threads we’ve had recently about transplanting wombs into men - and the absolute certainty those posters had that it would happen and it SHOULD happen.

YY. I had that in mind in my slightly ranty post above. A woman will have to die for a uterus to become available. Who gets it, a woman who perhaps has lost her uterus to uterine cancer and who might be able to bear a child or does it go to a transwomen so that their identity can be affirmed?

To say there are no female to male trans people in the prison system at the moment doesn't actually address the point. If a female has transitioned to male. Are they placed in female prisons based on their chromosomes rather than gender assignment?

fermat, no=one answered your question

"For those defending moving transwoman rapists into women's prisons, can you say off the top of your head what percentage of incarcerated violent offenders are men?

50%? 75%? 80%? 90%? 98%?

Sex offenders - same question. Do you know what the actual percentages are?

How many specialist prisons housing solely male sex offenders are there? How many specialist prisons are there housing solely female sex offenders?"

Me, miss, me! I know!

There are no specialist sex offender prisons for women in the UK. There's no requirement for it. I think there are something like 7 specialist prisons for sex offenders for England and Wales for males - though they only house about half the sex offenders that there are in the estate. Off the top of my head I don't think there is a category A (highest security) prison for women, but there is a wing in one prison that holds about 20 women in a higher security setting. No transmen are held in a male prison in the UK.

As for the offending stats, I would hazard a guess that sex offending is 98% male and violent offending 90%.

And that's why sex matters when it comes to prisons.

Storm, prisons are segregated by sex. Biological sex.

So female people should go to a women's prison.

Male people should go to a men's prison.

Of course if transgender people want to lobby for a transgender only prison then that's fine as well of course.

Are they placed in female prisons based on their chromosomes rather than gender assignment?

Not just about their chromosomes though is it? Disingenuous.

There is no category A for women in the U.K.. It is referred to as 'restricted status'.

*Ah, come on now, how else are you going to get a witch to burn?^

Indeed!

Ok. So Female to male transsexuals go to female prisons and male to female transsexuals go to male prisons. Interesting.

This crime is evil and THIS person may have had and ulterior motivation for transitioning. However how representative is this of trans women? I've read that trans women are much more likely to be the victim of crime rather than perpetrator.

You have an issue with self identifying but get a more Rounded argument that this one case which is flawed as they haven't self identified. They have female genitalia which would class them as female under current rulings.

TellsEveryoneRealFacts, I mean 'truly' as in, because they truly want to be a woman. What else could I have meant, that men who transition because they want to be a woman and men who transition because they want to go to a women's prison transition differently, are there faux vaginas made slightly differently? Are the men doing it to get into a prison given wonky implants and sub par hormones? No, of course not but you knew that and just couldn't help but point out that they're not real women.

Extremism is born of oppression, you and people like you have helped to create situations like this.

I’ll just remind everyone of the few threads we’ve had recently about transplanting wombs into men - Hadn't heard this one but its exactly the sort of ethical dilemma I was thinking about.

Don't we also have unisex prisons like Peterborough? Whats wrong with all prisons being unisex?

I've read that trans women are much more likely to be the victim of crime rather than perpetrator.

Yes, for male to female trans people working as prostitutes in South America. For the UK, trans people are actually less at risk than the average person...and certainly less at risk than women [the naturally becunted ones].

If you are going to read this stuff, might be worth reading beyond the headlines into where they are getting their data from.

This shit is fucked up and really frightening. At the risk of sounding like my nan I don't know what kind of world I am living in any more. I am scared.

He is a piece of shit and he is male. A man did this and a man he will remain, even with his fake fanny. I hope he rots and I really hope people wake up to what is happening, how men are now committing crimes which are recorded as female crimes and all the other crap that is going on.

The world needs to wake the fuck up.