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To feel sickened that this man is being referred to in this way (WARNING UPSETTING CONTENT)

932 replies

bigoldscaredycat · 18/07/2018 06:21

This man raped a three month old baby boy to the point where the baby needed corrective surgery.

He is now in a women’s prison in Canada where he has beaten up a female inmate.

THIS is where self ID leads. Men like this being incarcerated with women and their crimes being counted as female.

torontosun.com/news/national/feds-deny-paying-for-convicted-pedophiles-implants

www.newwestrecord.ca/dangerous-offender-in-b-c-loses-appeal-for-day-or-full-parole-1.23279132

Go on, Mumsnet, delete me for deliberately misgendering a male baby rapist.

THIS.IS.A.MAN.

Perhaps this story will illustrate why feminists are so up in arms about self ID.

I would love to see even the staunchest anti-women transactivist tell me that this person is a woman and that they belong in a women’s prison.

OP posts:
TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 18/07/2018 22:13

TellsEveryoneRealFacts, I mean 'truly' as in, because they truly want to be a woman. What else could I have meant, that men who transition because they want to be a woman and men who transition because they want to go to a women's prison transition differently, are there faux vaginas made slightly differently? Are the men doing it to get into a prison given wonky implants and sub par hormones? No, of course not but you knew that and just couldn't help but point out that they're not real women.

Extremism is born of oppression, you and people like you have helped to create situations like this.

Huh? I have helped create a situation where what exactly? I mean, it usually IS feminists fault no matter the problem, but really?

Peggy truly wanted to be a yellowcoat. Wasn't happening though was it?

SophoclesTheFox · 18/07/2018 22:13

Whats wrong with all prisons being unisex?

What's wrong with all prisons being single sex?

Beansonapost · 18/07/2018 22:14

Wow.

I'm surprised at this thread.

Man rapes child and is now calling himself a woman...

And women are on here defending his rights...
😐

And not only that; women are drawing comparisons to violent women. 😐. Women don't have penises; so women cannot rape.

Some of you are just as abhorrent and no better than his actions!

He cannot identify his way out of his crimes, he is a pedophile and a BABY rapist!

I don't know why some societies keep these people... people like him should be put down like some old dog! ... but you know human rights etc etc.

Some of you women on this thread is the reason a lot of men get away the shit they do. They know they can count on your sympathies and play to your kindness. You subset of women are the reasons may of these activists behave they way they do. They know there will always be muppets out there willing to defend whatever a man demands! SHAME!

Neededastealthname · 18/07/2018 22:17

PerfPower, no not by activists. By child rapists. Remember that 3 month old BABY that was raped? The baby this thread is SUPPOSED to be about.

FermatsTheorem · 18/07/2018 22:18

Extremism is born of oppression, you and people like you have helped to create situations like this.

My impression of most gender critical posters on here is quite the reverse. We're mostly politically left of centre, campaigned against clause 28, thoroughly in favour of equal marriage, support anti racist initiatives. Most of us started from a live-and-let-live position, until we started to think about the implications for women's rights.

It's not the nice, ordinary transsexuals we've lived side by side with happily for years if not decades who are the problem. It's the piss-takers, the (non-trans) male predators taking advantage of sloppily drafted legislation, who are the problem. Because a combination of self ID (you're trans if you say you are, and no evidence can be adduced to the contrary) and the privileging of "gender" over sex based rights (a transwoman's right to access spaces she identifies into trumps biological women's right to set up spaces for the use of biological women only) has created this mess.

We don't want Brenda the transwoman in prison for embezzlement or fraud to suffer at the hands of male prisoners in the male estate - but if, out of sympathy for Brenda, we allow the principle to be established that transwomen should be in the female estate, then we have to take men like the child rapist into the female estate too. Because legally there would be no grounds for making a distinction if self ID were all that counted.

Which is why I think it needs to be explicit that the GRA affords trans people the legal fiction of being treated as if they were the opposite sex, rather than pretending they magically become the opposite sex, while maintaining a small number of carefully chosen exemptions for biological sex, one of which would be single sex prisons - with wings for trans prisoners where necessary, so transwomen didn't have to be imprisoned with the rest of the male prison population.

VulvaOfSteel · 18/07/2018 22:23

The really sensible (the only sensible) side for trans activists to take on this issue is to say that men who do this are men, and you want nothing to do with them and you're happy for them to go to men's prisons. To do anything else is to show you have a very strange agenda.

VulvaOfSteel · 18/07/2018 22:23

And peolpe will turn for this, no one supports that man in a woman's prison.

WhiteWalkerWife · 18/07/2018 22:25

I always wonder why child or baby, in this case, rapist or abusers get the luxury of prison. In my ideal world they wouldnt be in it.

Storminamug · 18/07/2018 22:25

"Some of you are just as abhorrent and no better than his actions."

Wow...just wow.

VulvaOfSteel · 18/07/2018 22:26

Are there currently any statistics for men who truly transitioned

How can we get stats if we aren't allowed to and legally record male crimes as female and not as trans? All we can do is comment on what we seen in the papers which often obscures the fact that it was male crimes in the first place.

There is evidence to show that tw commit crime at the same levels males do though.

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 18/07/2018 22:27

The really sensible (the only sensible) side for trans activists to take on this issue is to say that men who do this are men, and you want nothing to do with them and you're happy for them to go to men's prisons. To do anything else is to show you have a very strange agenda

Action for Trans Health, who seem to advise the government and get money from various agencies, one of their manifesto requirements is releasing all trans prisoners.

Nice, huh? It literally is a get out of jail free card.

UpstartCrow · 18/07/2018 22:28

Whats wrong with all prisons being unisex?
Because when women are raped or have consensual sex, they risk pregnancy.

I cant believe thats a genuine question. There isn't a single prison officer calling for mixed sex prisons.

Neededastealthname · 18/07/2018 22:28

TellsEveryOneRealFacts (as opposed to false ones?), if the trans community wasn't facing people like you who quibble over a real vs fake vagina, they wouldn't be so protected, rapists wouldn't be protected.

A child was raped and the man responsible choose to reassign his gender to get into a female prison, in what way at fucking all is it important that he isn't a 'real' woman? If your point is that because of this he should not be allowed to be in a women's prison then I apologise but if you are simply arguing that he isn't now a 'real' woman then you're missing what's important here.

VulvaOfSteel · 18/07/2018 22:30

I don't think anyone with a history of sexual offending should be able to get a Grc.

This country is not going to give British citizenship to people with criminal convictions but will let men who abuse women become women.

UpstartCrow · 18/07/2018 22:30

Are you actually trying to blame women for the actions of men? GTFO.

VulvaOfSteel · 18/07/2018 22:31

TellsEveryOneRealFacts (as opposed to false ones?), if the trans community wasn't facing people like you who quibble over a real vs fake vagina, they wouldn't be so protected, rapists wouldn't be protected.

Because some feminists don't want rapists in women's prisons....rapists are in women's prisons.

So if we just let the rapists in women's prisons..then that won't happen? Confused

Storminamug · 18/07/2018 22:32

I fully support any person who wishes to reassign their sex. If somebody born male wishes to become female - go for it. If someone who is born female wishes to become male - go for it. Feminists have been allied to trans people for decades. Only in the twisted world of mumsnet - does this now equate to being a baby rapist.

LunaTrap · 18/07/2018 22:33

He isn't a real woman AND he shouldn't be allowed in a women's prison. It's very straightforward. He is a violent male, a child killer and child rapist who now poses a danger to female inmates, some of whom he has already been violent to. He will never be any kind of woman and he should be in a male prison (segregated if necessary like the rest of the paedophiles).

LunaTrap · 18/07/2018 22:34

Do you think this rapist is a woman Storm?

ToeToToe · 18/07/2018 22:36

If somebody born male wishes to become female - go for it.

They can't. Because - biology.

And there is no place for male rapists in women's prisons. And blaming women or feminists for any of this is abhorrent.

Neededastealthname · 18/07/2018 22:38

FermatsTheorem, my issue isn't with women guarding their rights, it's with the fact that it appears to be more important than proper justice for a child rapist. So many posts on this thread are about such absurd things, the argument that they won't be 'real' women is taking precedence over the implications of the ease of exploitation regarding gender reassignment.

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 18/07/2018 22:40

A child was raped and the man responsible choose to reassign his gender to get into a female prison, in what way at fucking all is it important that he isn't a 'real' woman? If your point is that because of this he should not be allowed to be in a women's prison then I apologise but if you are simply arguing that he isn't now a 'real' woman then you're missing what's important here

In every way it is important because it is complete bullshit. No man is ever going to be a 'real' woman. It is literally the whole point.

LunaTrap · 18/07/2018 22:40

The fact that he isn't an actual woman is pretty important when arguing that prisons should be segregated by SEX.

FermatsTheorem · 18/07/2018 22:40

How does a man become female, Storm? What exactly does this process involve?

And while we're at it, point to any post, anywhere on MN, where any woman has said that being trans equates to being a child rapist. You won't find one, anywhere.

What we have said is that transwomen appear (according to the available stats) to retain male patterns of offending, and male strength, and (if still in possession of their penis) the capacity to rape women and impregnate them, and therefore if we segregate prisons according to sex, transwomen ought not to be placed in the female estate. That's not saying "all transwomen are rapists" any more than an admission that you wouldn't expect, say, a man and a woman who did not know each other to share a bedroom in a hostel is equivalent to saying "all men are rapists."

Of course not all men are rapists - but of the sex offenders in prison, 98% of them are men, and of the prisoners in the male estate expressing a desire to change gender (just over 100), approximately half of them are sex offenders.

ToeToToe · 18/07/2018 22:43

Hasn't he had proper justice - He's in jail and been refused parole, hasn't he?

What about the proper justice for the female prisoner he assaulted - he should be nowhere near vulnerable females. He's a rapist and a killer.